Appendix

Admittedly the ideas in this book are controversial... as was Jesus himself.

While many have been able to find fellowship in a tidy theological camp, I have both agreement and disagreement with available traditions.  My goal in pursuing Christ has been to be pro-Christ, anti-denominational, thoroughly Biblical, and willing to consider the hard questions.  Yet I do not want to be dogmatic and close the door to discussion.  The truth does not change with discussion, yet God can use discussion to help both you and I grow in the truth.  So, this last chapter is a place to air important feedback and discussion about this clarification of the gospel, as well as additional supporting arguments.

You were already invited to make comments and raise questions on each page of the book online.  However, if you prefer to email me questions at DGJC.ORG/CONTACT I will answer them in the online Appendix.  I will remove your name to protect your privacy.

Aion

Most Christian Universalists have observed, as I, that the Greek word "aion" is at times wrongly translated "eternal" in the English Bible when the meaning can also be "age", "life", "entire", "complete", and "world".  To help your own study I have used the http://www.blueletterbible.org to find every usage of the Greek words "aion," "aionios," and "aidios" in the New Testament. 

aion:  Strong's G165 occurs 128 times in 102 verses in the Greek concordance.
aionios: Strong's G166 occurs 71 times in 69 verses in the Greek concordance.
aïdios: Strong's G126 occurs 2 times in 2 verses in the Greek concordance.

My online chart lists the references to these Greek words in the World English Bible and the Young's Literal Translation along with my notes.  This may help your own study of this fascinating word. Download all the New Testament 'AION' verses at...

DGJC.ORG/OPTIMISM/AION

My articles Forever Is Not Forever? You Gotta Be Kidding Me! and Forever Is Not Forever? You Still Gotta Be Kidding Me! also offer my understanding of this important subject.

 

Arminian & Calvin Only?

One thoughtful reader asked...

READER>> Why do you only compare Arminianism and Calvinism?  There are many other religions and many other Christian denominations.  So why do you only focus on the Arminian and Calvinist denominations?

ME>> That is an excellent question.  Your question reminds me why this salvation discussion is so difficult.  It is too easy to miss prerequisite concepts.  First, understand that the labels "Arminianism" and "Calvinism" are not the names of particular Christian groups or denominations.  Instead, these labels originated in history past to describe particular ways of thinking about salvation.  There is no church of Jacob Arminius or church of John Calvin, the two men whose names have become attached to these particular views of salvation.

Instead, various Christian denominations and individual Christians throughout history have adopted one view or the other, or attempted modified views.  For example, there are Baptist churches that are Arminian in their salvation doctrine and there are Baptist churches that are Calvinist in their salvation doctrine.  There are also Presbyterian churches that are Arminian in their salvation doctrine and there are Presbyterian churches that are Calvinist in their salvation doctrine.  There are also individual Christians within Baptist, Presbyterian, Catholic, Methodist, and all kinds of churches with an Arminian or Calvinist view of salvation, perhaps even agreeing or disagreeing with the view of their church or pastor.  There are also many Christians who simply follow Jesus and are totally unaware of these distinctions.

Yet even so, the salvation view of most Christian denominations and individual Christians can be categorized as either Arminian or Calvinist.  Do you believe Christ paid for the sins of ALL mankind or only a chosen PART?  Do you believe Christ completed ALL of salvation for the saved or only a PART?  Secondly, understand that Arminianism and Calvinism are the two most common views of salvation found within Christendom.  So it is fitting that any book about Christian salvation should also consider these views in the discussion.  This book has simply put the magnifying glass of comparison and contrast on Arminian and Calvinist doctrine, regardless of what flavor church denomination you attend.   My goal has been to help clarify the gospel of grace to you and point out the strengths and weaknesses of Arminianism and Calvinism, the most popular salvation models currently accepted.

Book Reviews

My book has mentioned other authors and their books.  Friends have also asked me to read additional books to challenge my understanding.  Each of the authors below has attempted to consistently and systematically answer questions about Christian salvation.  The variation of conclusions is surprising and even disturbing.  Read the books below (index) to learn more about the thoughts of others and of course compare them to the Bible.  If you do read each book below you will see that many authors conclude that Christ will save all mankind, though each reason from their tradition.  How could it be otherwise?  Because of this there is still quite a range of understanding even among those that happily conclude that God saves all.  Hopefully the happiness is not ruined by these differences!  I have addressed some of the differences in my article, Yes, but Even Harder Questions.

Conventionally book writers should not write reviews of similarly themed books.  The review and conclusion should be left to the audience.  So please consider the notes below an introduction to books you may not be familiar with and an encouragement to read them yourself.

My memory is largely untrustworthy, but it is possible that this is my second time reading many of the books below.  The thought occurred that a friend recommended some of these books in the past and that while reading these authors I prayed that one day, when I became a more mature Christian, that I might write my own defense of Christ's victory.  I certainly have not been faithful to maintain a consistent position through the decades, and worse I have been quite hypocritical.  However, I mention these things so that I can give thanks and confess... to God be the glory.


 

C. S. Lewis wrote Mere Christianity, the most popular Christian view today worldwide.  He says on page 52, "God created things which had free will. That means creatures which can go either wrong or right. Some people think they can imagine a creature which was free but had no possibility of going wrong; I cannot. If a thing is free to be good it is also free to be bad. And free will is what has made evil possible. Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having."  Lewis is the modern champion of Arminian salvation and orthodoxy, that God loves all mankind, but his "love" respects man's free will to reject Christ and as a result to be damned by God for all eternity.  So that is one view of God's love. My article, Other Theologians, offers further review of Lewis.

J. I. Packer wrote Knowing God.  Packer's excellently worded volume is one of the top books that have shaped present day evangelical thought.  Packer's position is classic Calvinism and he has won many to this way of thinking through his book on salvation theology.  The best part about the book, however, is that strictly speaking it is not a theology book in the sense you might imagine.  Instead it is simply a book about 'knowing God' and the life changes that can be expected when one does know God.  I am greatly encouraged every time I read the book... except for one point.  Packer writes that God certainly does not love all mankind.  He follows the traditional explanations that Christ died for all mankind, but only those also specially chosen by God's grace to be born again will place faith in Christ and be finally saved.  The remainder are then instead eternally damned by God's wrath.  Packer makes no mention of the eonian nature of punishment in Hades thus a haunting question remains.  Can one who thinks that God does not deeply love all mankind truly know God?

 

James Boice wrote The Doctrines of Grace, a solid defense of Calvinistic salvation.  He says on page 125,  "If Jesus died for all the sins of all men, unbelief included, then all are saved, which the Bible denies.  If he died for all the sins of all men, unbelief excluded, then he did not die for the sins of anybody and all must be condemned.  There is no other position, save that he died for the sins of the elect people only."   Though Calvinism is not as popular as Arminianism it is a strongly held and defended orthodoxy.  Calvinism concludes that God only loves a subset of mankind and his love is guaranteed to win these chosen to salvation while the majority are damned by God for all eternity.  So that is another view of God's love. My article, Other Theologians, offers further review.

Charles Spurgeon wrote All of Grace.  Spurgeon, called the Prince of Preachers, is one of the most respected Calvinists in history.  He won many to repentance saying, "Meet me in Heaven!"  I would easily recommend the book, yet it is not without fault.  He seems to undermine grace on page 131 saying, "The Lord does... produce new birth in all who believe," but instead only those who are born again can believe in the first place, I John 5:1. Yet he also says, "I will go as far as Martin Luther, in that strong assertion of his, where he says, 'If any man doth ascribe aught of salvation, even the very least, to the free-will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright.'" Yet sadly Spurgeon did not understand the temporal nature of punishment and that even the redeemed, if unbelieving, are punished in Hades, 2 Peter 2:1-2.  But the redeemed, even if punished in Hades, will never suffer in the Lake of Fire, so his warning to escape wrath can only result in adding human conditions to God's unconditional love.

Rob Bell wrote Love Wins, an alternate explanation of the gospel.  The desire to write my book was born after reading his book.  His supposed claim that all mankind is finally saved created a national stir that prompted me to investigate his ideas to compare with my own.  The spoiler is that his book is hardly definitive that all mankind is saved, but instead he thinks the saved can still choose to sin and leave God in Heaven.  That is yet another view of God's love and power (or lack of power) to transform.  Sadly Bell's book also lacks the precision that one might hope for in a theological treatise.  My article, 'Love Wins' by Rob Bell, offers further review.

Larry Dixon wrote Farewell, Rob Bell to refute Love Wins.  On page 14 Dixon says, "These [Bell's] statements imply that believing the gospel has no transactional effect upon the sinner, that belief is immaterial to the reality of being in the Father's love."  Dixon understands Bell to say that faith does not activate or help to deposit Jesus' payment for our sin into our account.  Bell understands that Jesus' payment is applied by God before we believe.  Christians then are those people who believe in what God has already done for them, meanwhile the sins of unbelievers are also paid.  Dixon sees this as a heretical error because he believes that "faith" plays a "transactional" role in applying Jesus' work to each individual.  My article, Three Rebuttals, offers further review.

Michael Wittmer wrote Christ Alone to refute Love Wins. On page 12 Wittmer explains that "...evangelicals hold that faith is an open hand, a passive receiving of God's precious gift to anyone who accepts it."  Wittmer and Bell also appear to have different definitions of "faith."  Unfortunately, Wittmer did not more clearly distinguish the difference between "faith" that is trust in the finished work of Christ already applied to our account versus "faith" that is the condition to activate salvation.  The language of "passive receiving" needs further explanation.  Wittmer is apparently from the Calvinist camp, but he sounds Arminian at times.  My article, Three Rebuttals, offers further review.

Mark Galli wrote God Wins to refute Love Wins.  Galli says, "Universalists quote many other passages with the word 'all' in them, but in context, most of those really mean 'all Israel', or 'all kinds of people' or 'both Jews and Gentiles' will be saved.  One example is found in Romans: 'God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so that he could have mercy on everyone' (Romans 11:32).  Paul has been discussing the place of Jews and Gentiles in the scheme of salvation, so clearly the 'all' here means both Jews and Gentiles - not all within each group."  Galli's treatment of this important verse is too brief.  The grand conclusion of grace theology deserves serious commentary.  My article, Three Rebuttals, offers further review.

Steve Gregg of The Narrow Path, wrote All You Want to Know About Hell.  Gregg presents an equitable description of three Christian views of Hell that have been held throughout history.  Gregg does not endorse a particular view because he has not taken a position yet himself.  Thus one might hope that his analysis is more balanced as a result.  The three views of Hell explained in his volume are the traditional view that Hell is eternal punishment for the unbelieving, the conditional view that Hell is temporary with human immortality being conditioned upon faith, also known as annihilationism, and the restorationist view that Hell is temporary with the guaranteed posthumous salvation of unbelieving mankind, also known as Christian Universalism.  The big surprise for today's evangelical is that all three of these views co-existed in Christian thought for the first 5 centuries!  Gregg cites that of the six major schools of theology in the early centuries of the church four were restorationist, one was conditional immortality, and the last school at Rome adopted the present traditional view while anathematizing the restorationists.

Dr. Heleen Keizer wrote Life Time Entirety to explain the meaning of the Greek word "aion."  Her 315 page PhD dissertation shows that the Greek word "aion" originally denotes "life time," "duration," or "complete life," but not "eternal."  This understanding is foundational for those believing that grace is victorious even for the unbelieving.  Curiously Dr. Keizer completed her research and dissertation without prior knowledge of John Wesley Hanson's research.  You can read her 315 page dissertation online or an abstract of her conclusions on my website.  My article, Forever is not Forever?  You Gotta Be Kidding Me!, offers further review.

Ilaria Ramelli and David Konstan wrote Terms for Eternity: Aionios and Aidios in Classical and Christian Texts.  This highly technical volume quotes hundreds of sources from classical literature, the Septuagint, early church fathers, and church fathers after Origen to determine the meaning and usage of Aionios and Aidios.  They conclude that Aidios nearly always means eternal in the absolute sense.  Aidios is used twice in the Bible: Romans 1:20 concerning God and Jude 6 concerning the bonds on fallen angels.  Aionios, however, has a range of meanings including, "life," "age," "generation," and "eon."  Aionios can also mean "eternal," but only when God is the subject.  Ramelli and Konstan concur with Keizer and Hanson and conclude saying, "Needless to say, the ethical implications of this question are profound."

John Wesley Hanson wrote The Greek Word AION - AIONIOS Translated Everlasting - Eternal in the Holy Bible Shown to Denote Limited Duration.  His classic work planted a seed of thought that gave birth to my optimistic understanding that Jesus is the savior of all mankind.  I do not agree with Hanson's interpretation of every Scripture, particularly Matthew 25.  Yet, Hanson cleared the way to understand that grace is completely apart from human condition and God does in fact truly love all mankind.  This classic work is available for free from the U.S. Library of Congress website and also from my own website.  My article, Forever is not Forever?  You Gotta Be Kidding Me!, offers further review.

Gerry Beauchemin wrote Hope Beyond Hell.  He offers four corrections to traditional Hell theology: the meanings of "aion," "gehenna," and "apollumi," and the error of free will.  On page 82, he happily agrees with the Calvinists that God always accomplishes his sovereign will to save his chosen people and he also agrees with Arminians who believe that God loves all mankind.  Like me he has added these two simple facts into the awesome news that Jesus is the savior of all mankind and thus there must be Hope Beyond Hell which he proves with Scripture.  On page 165 he boldly says, "The only way I [or you] can be truly assured I will be saved is if I believe that God saves all [mankind]."  I totally agree!  Otherwise your "faith" is built on something other than grace. Beauchemin is a courageous defender of truth versus tradition.

Ernst Stroeter, a United Methodist pastor, wrote The Gospel of God's Reconciliation of All in Christ.  He is no weak, liberal, wishful thinker with disregard for Scripture.  He offers solid exegesis of Colossians 1:15-20 and the cross of Jesus Christ as proof of God's love for mankind.  He says on page 168, "we must discard the pious illusion that there is safety for us because we became believers - that we are safe because of something we did. We must shed the belief of a personal, solitary faith and learn to rest in a different way in the redeeming grace for all humankind."  He defends the cross like no other and was persecuted for it.  Stroeter does speculate further than I prefer about the salvation of fallen angels and also about eons before Genesis 1:3 and after Revelation 22:21.

Thomas Allin wrote Christ Triumphant, The Larger Hope Asserted.  He argues for the final victory of Christ with Scripture, Christian reason, and the testimony of early and later church fathers.  He highlights Romans 11:32 and countless other Scripture.  He reasons that a god who merely offers love till the point of death followed by eternal damnation, if unbelieving, is not the gracious God of the Bible.  He cites Origen, Clement, Gregory, Jerome, and many others as well as church creeds, hymns, and liturgies.  Allin insists that God will salt all mankind with fire and condemn the unbeliever to Hades.  However, because "aion" is temporal these judgments are for purification, not damnation, 1 Peter 4:6.  He concludes, "God shall be all in all!" - Amen!

Robin Parry wrote The Evangelical Universalist under the pseudonym Gregory MacDonald.  Parry reasons carefully as he questions traditional Hell theology.  He notes that Calvinism and Arminianism are each reasonable at points, but also unreasonable.  They cannot both be true and one is not preferred alone.  That is why Christians are so divided over this point! Parry says on page 23, "To my mind, Christian reason seems to lead either to Calvinist universalism, or away from Calvinism."  So true!  Also Parry and Beauchemin both agree with Hanson, that the "aion" of the Lake of Fire is only an age of punishment for unbelievers.  Yet I still think a better explanation is that the "aion" of Hades is temporary punishment for unbelievers, but the Lake of Fire is for The Ages of The Ages, yet only for fallen angels.  I highly recommend Parry.

Thomas Talbott wrote The Inescapable Love of God.  Part I & II are the most readable well stated defense of Christ as Savior of all that I have reviewed.  Read it!  One would have to turn off all reason and reliance on Scripture to deny his proofs.  Part III, however, is more difficult to follow.  He argues against a retributivist God, but he should clarify that God's holiness would hypothetically demand the eternal banishment of even the least blemished sinner... were it not for Christ.  Thus the believing worship Christ for his sacrifice which now demands our salvation and transformation.  This high bar is our guarantee that the redeemed will not bring even our least blemish into glory.  Talbott concludes saying Christian faith is the logical wager between hope and despair.  Though Christian hope is not a wager, but instead repentance from hypocrisy to confess Christ as our savior and the savior of all mankind.

A. E. Knoch wrote All In All.  Knoch's volume proposes a very interesting model of redemptive history with 5 distinct eons between eternity past and eternity future.  I plan to study this further.  Knoch's understanding of eon, eon of eons, and the eons of the eons supported his conclusion that all mankind will be finally saved.  Knoch also played a key role in the compilation of the Concordant Bible.  This Bible translates "aion" as "eon" and also consistently translates every Greek word with only one English word to help the reader observe the Holy Spirit's word choices.  Knoch has much to contribute to this discussion, but unfortunately he also muddies the waters.  His "eonian" theory is tied into the most dogmatic dispensational system I have ever seen.  Knoch also parted ways with orthodoxy concerning the Trinity and the deity of Christ.  Too bad.  More can be learned about Knoch at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph_Ernst_Knoch.

G. Campbell Morgan wrote God's Methods with Man, including a chart of the history of redemption.  Those with a dispensational flair will be encouraged, while the remainder will be challenged.  He makes critical observations of history's "aions."   Morgan strongly states on page 135 that, "Names entered in the [Book of Life] are found there only by virtue of the atoning blood of Jesus Christ." This is the good news since Christ died for all mankind (+1)! He also notes that 1 Corinthians 2:7-10 says that the mystery of God's love for ALL mankind is only revealed to the church.  God loves ALL, but only the church believes it (+1)!  Yet somehow he also concludes that man's will can finally resist grace (-1) and oddly that there is an inner church within the church (-1).  Some of Rob Bell's thoughts parallel this book. (Score: 0)  My own redemptive history chart can be found in my article, Eschatology is the Study of Future Good News!

Kalen Fristad wrote Destined for Salvation, God's Promise to Save Everyone.  Fristad argues for the salvation of all mankind with similar reasons as other evangelicals including that "aion" means age or a temporal duration, that man does not have free will to effect God's unconditional love, and that God's judgment, even in Hades, are loving acts toward his unrepentant people.  On page 44 Fristad, in the gentlest way, boldly calls belief in free will idolatry!  He also provides useful chapters on the history of Christian Universalism and strategies for sharing the good news without fear.  Fristad does fail to protect the inspiration of Scripture suggesting that Luke 16:19-31 is a parable and that OT Scripture was influenced by the writer's wrong cultural views of God.  However, the OT Scripture was God breathed!  I recommend the book with caveats.

Stephen Campana wrote The Calvinist Universalist.  He says on page 149, "...the consistent Calvinist will either embrace universal salvation or reject Calvinist election."  He also considers my own conclusion that the Lake of Fire is not designed for mankind, but for fallen angels.  Like me, he also asserts that mankind's fallen nature was ordained by God, NOT man's supposed free will.  He proposes mankind was created with a sinful nature, while I propose that God subjected his sinless creation to vanity after the proclamation of 'very good', but before the rebellion of Satan and mankind.  Though we agree that sin entered the world because God ordained our fallen natures which now lust to be god.  Campana could more careful when describing God's sovereign and prescriptive will.  Saying that God "wanted" Adam to sin does not best describe God's motives.  Instead God "ordained" the existence of sin, to create the opportunity to demonstrate his grace, forgiving and leading us away from sin.  While I may not agree with all Campana's arguments, he emphasizes an essential component in the defense of universal salvation, the necessity for faith to be reasonable.

John Robinson wrote In the End, GOD, A Study of the Christian Doctrine of Last Things.  Robinson offends epistemology and inspiration so gravely with the invention of eschatological myth that many will throw the book away after Chapter 5, if they get that far.  I nearly did myself!  Yet he makes key points in chapters "The Resurrection of the Body," "The End of the Lord,", and "All in All."  He is accused of arrogance by Trevor Hart for asserting that God must save all mankind because of Christ.  On that point I join Robinson!  Yet Robinson missed the eonian nature of Hades and instead violates inspiration to explain Scripture.  Thomas Torrance also condemns Robinson for saying the gospel includes the mythological reality of eternal damnation for the unbeliever.  Yet Torrance is self-condemned saying the mystery of sin requires the damnation of unbelievers though their sins are atoned!  My review continues in my article, The Good, Bad, and Ugly of John Robinson.

Hosea Ballou wrote Ancient History of Universalism.  Very interesting!  Today an overwhelming majority of Christians understand hope in the universal salvation of mankind to be heretical.  However, this forgotten book, originally published in 1885, documents the history of Universalism from the Apostles to the Fifth General Council in 553 A.D..  Read the volume and you will be surprised to learn that many Christians held that Jesus would finally reconcile his entire creation to himself.  In fact Universalism prospered until condemned by Catholic politics in 553 A.D.  Origen and other early church fathers were strong voices that Christ would be "all in all" even saving Satan!

Thomas Whittemore wrote The Modern History of Universalism.  The most surprising fact in this volume is the ample and consistent witness to Christ as savior of all mankind throughout nearly all of church history.  Adherents included Calvinists, Arminians, churchmen, dissenters, Catholics, protestants, Anabaptists, Baptists, Europeans, Americans, and Internationals.  Whittenmore suggests that the greatest irony of the Reformation is that many protestants rejected Catholic purgatorial Hell only to embrace it again.  Also a hilarious conversation is recorded between John Murray and an objector on pages 323-324 that is worth the price of the book.  Murray is the Father of American Universalism.  The book concludes with important theological distinctions between various Universalists.

Randy Alcorn wrote Heaven.  He rejects universal salvation siding with Arminians that "free choice" gains us Heaven.  He agrees that the present Paradise and Hell are temporary.  He also agrees that the Hebrew "olam" can mean finite duration.  He uses Colossians 1:20 to assert the complete restoration of all things such as plants, animals, rocks, and stars.  He even asserts the final salvation of the unborn and children because "God in his... special love for children covers them with Christ's blood," page 355.  If only his excitement for complete reconciliation would include unbelievers.  If "olam" can mean finite then the Greek "aion" can also mean a finite time in Hell.  Alcorn should trust that just like the unborn, "God in his special love covered all mankind with Christ's blood."  As an aside check out page 352 for speculation about sex in Heaven!

Bill Saxton wrote Daniel's Prophecies of Covenant Change.  Saxton does not address the scope of mankind's salvation.  However, he does give thorough treatment to Daniel's prophecies that relate to my proposed understanding of Daniel 12:1-4, Matthew 24-25, and Revelation.  Eschatology is not my strength and so I would be glad take a wide path around these debated and divisive subjects in order to simply enjoy brotherhood trusting God with unanswered questions.  Yet the grace of Christ draws me, and hopefully you as well, to search deeply into the prophesied future of mankind's redemption.  Saxton does not propose a definite answer to the timing of the resurrection and judgment forecast in Daniel 12:2, but instead a possible dual meaning.  Daniel 12 follows closely after Chapter 11 which he understands to detail the life of 1st century King Herod.  Yet Daniel 12:1-4 also appears to speak about resurrection and final judgment.  Thus Saxton has not answered all my remaining questions, but he does inspire me to strive to perfect my understanding of mankind's redemption with Biblical proofs.

Sharon Baker wrote Razing Hell and is accused of Universalism.  Yet, she says that people can reject Christ and chose annihilation in the Lake of Fire.  She inconsistently says we are forgiven before we repent, but we must receive forgiveness to avoid condemnation.  She rejects the idea that Christ's death was needed to propitiate God's wrath because that would make God evil and retributive.  Since the Bible does portray God as wrathful, she concludes that these ideas are not inspired, but instead human error.  Baker believes that since "aion" is temporal, unbelievers will get a second chance after Hell, kind of like Arminianism X 2.  Her book discredits inspiration and of course "chance" salvation, whether first or second, denies the power of God's grace in raising the dead.

William Shed wrote The Doctrine of Endless Punishment, with historical, Biblical, and rational arguments.  Shed speaks well against annihilationism and Hell as mere suffering in this life.  Yet he says on page 95, "the most dangerous [form of Universalism], is that which concedes the force of the Biblical and rational arguments respecting the guilt of sin, and its intrinsic desert of everlasting punishment, but contends that redemption from it through the vicarious atonement of Christ is extended into the next world."  My view exactly!  Shed says there are only two "aions," the present and the next. What about the Jewish age, the church age, and the New Heavens and Earth?  Shed says if we agree mankind has free will then it is proved that eternal punishment is required for unbelievers.  Excellent logic, but a bad premise!  He also implies that we are saved or damned by our penitence or lack thereof! Mr. Shed, where is the grace?

John Rice wrote Predestined for Hell?  He was a well-known evangelist and founder of Sword of the Lord publishing.  Rice vehemently opposed orthodox Calvinism, yet he labeled himself a Calvinist because he believed in the P of T.U.L.I.P., the perseverance of the saints.  Yet he rejected the L, limited atonement.  Curiously Rice also staunchly defends free will as the reason that any individual is saved, which is classic Arminianism.  There is so much misunderstanding about these things and Dr. Rice's book simply adds to the confusion.  My own thesis makes it clear that I have both a strong agreement and a strong disagreement with Dr. Rice.  I wonder what he would say about the optimistic idea that Jesus really is the savior of all mankind, though unbelieving humans are punished in Hades, but not the Lake of Fire?

Francis Chan and Preston Sprinkle wrote erasing hell.  They wrote a book of concern about modern day evangelicals who have effectively erased the warnings about Hell from their gospel.  Chan does well to remind us of the need to warn the unbelieving about the punishment waiting for those who reject the grace of Christ.  Yet he also disagrees with those who would hope for any kind of universal salvation of mankind.  Curiously at the end of his book, Chan confesses that he cannot definitively say that Hell is eternal.  I agree that a gospel that does not warn the unbeliever about punishment in Hell is not the gospel.  Yet I also wonder what Chan and Sprinkle would think about the idea that unbelievers are punished in Hades, yet safely extracted out in Revelation 20:13-14?

I, Jeff Martin, wrote Optimism Out of Control.  Like many above I have defended God's victorious grace in the final salvation of all mankind with Biblical arguments concerning 1) God's free will to save mankind, 2) mankind's lack of free will to save ourselves, 3) the meaning of "aion", 4) the temporal nature of afterlife punishment, 5) and Christ's atonement of all mankind as the Second Adam and new federal head of all humanity.  These arguments are nothing new.  My additional contributions to the discussion include the observation that Hades and the Lake of Fire do not the serve the same purpose.  Unbelieving man is punished temporally in Hades, while the Lake of Fire is prepared to damn only Satan and his angels for The Ages of The Ages.  I also observed the "Hosea Strategy" which is essential for a consistent Biblical hermeneutic.  Jesus followed the example of Hosea as well as followed his own counsel in Proverbs to speak foolishness to the fool, calling his stubborn lost sheep, "not my sheep."


Book review anchor index:
Mere-Christianity-CS-Lewis
Knowing-God-JI-Packer
The-Doctrines-of-Grace-James-Boice
All-of-Grace-Charles-Spurgeon
Love-Wins-Rob-Bell
Farewell-Rob-Bell-Larry-Dixon
Christ-Alone-Michael-Wittmer
God-Wins-Mark-Galli
All-You-Want-to-Know-About-Hell-Steve-Greg
Life-Time-Entirety-Heleen-Keizer
Terms-for-Eternity-Aionios-and-Aidios-in-Classical-and-Christian-Texts-Ramelli-Konstan
The-Greek-Word-AION-AIONIOS-Translated-Everlasting-Eternal-in-the-Holy-Bible-John-Wesley-Hanson
Hope-Beyond-Hell-Gerry-Beauchemin
The-Gospel-of-Gods-Reconciliation-of-All-in-Christ-Ernst-Stroeter
Christ-Triumphant-The-Larger-Hope-Asserted-Thomas-Allin
The-Evangelical-Universalist-Gregory-McDonald-Robin-Parry
The-Inescapable-Love-of-God-Thomas-Talbott
All-In-All-AE-Knoch
Gods-Methods-with-Man-G-Campbell-Morgan
Destined-for-Salvation-Gods-Promise-to-Save-Everyone-Kalen-Fristad
The-Calvinist-Universalist-Stephen-Campana
In-the-End-GOD-John-Robinson
Ancient-History-of-Universalism-Hosea-Ballou
The-Modern-History-of-Universalism-Thomas-Whittemore
Heaven-Randy-Alcorn
Daniels-Prophecies-of-Covenant-Change-Bill-Saxton
Razing-Hell-Sharon-Baker
The-Doctrine-of-Endless-Punishment-William-Shed
Predestined-for-Hell-John-Rice
Erasing-Hell-Francis-Chan
Optimism-Out-of-Control-Jeff-Martin

But ya gotta accept it!

OBJECTORS>> BUT YA GOTTA ACCEPT IT!

ME>> Friends, consider these questions:

WHAT "IT" DO WE HAVE TO ACCEPT?

What is the "IT" that we must accept in order to be a Christian?  If I hear correctly, many are saying that we must accept Jesus' offer of forgiveness in order to be forgiven.  However, there is a fundamental difference in the "IT" that must be accepted.  This understanding of "IT" is not true to grace and instead is a condition to God's unconditional love.  Instead, to become a believer, to become a Christian, one must accept that Jesus has already paid for our sins and has already forgiven us from the cross.  What is the "IT" that we must accept?  We must accept that God loved us before we loved him and fully paid for our sins and forgave us while we were yet his enemies.  Are we willing to repent of all our self-righteousness and from every man-made condition to instead receive God's unconditional love?  The history of his cross is proof of this very fact!  Read the account yourself.  Mankind did not accept Jesus, but crucified him, while he forgave us.  But are we willing instead to accept that God loves us and ALL his people unconditionally and that Jesus has already forgiven all mankind from the cross before the asking?  Or are we like ignorant Peter saying, "You will never wash my feet"?  Join believing Peter and say, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3 WEB).  Friend, the truth of God's forgiveness given to all mankind is plain to see.  Only blindness could obscure our vision.  Only a radical new birth through the Holy Spirit can open our eyes.

WHY DO WE HAVE TO ACCEPT "IT"?

When they say "But ya gotta accept it," what is the reason that we must accept "IT"?  What is the purpose, the goal, the end of this accepting?  If I hear correctly they are saying that we must accept the offer of forgiveness in order to be forgiven and thus to escape the Lake of Fire.  Fire insurance is their goal.  Again there is a fundamental difference in the reason that we must accept Christ.  Their understanding of the reason is not true to grace and instead illustrates the addition of a condition to God's unconditional love.  Their understanding falls short of accepting that the elect of God have never and will never be in danger of eternal damnation.  Their understanding misses God's great purpose in salvation.  Though they may quickly object, asking then, what is the purpose of Christian salvation anyway?  Why do we examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith?  Why do we sacrifice time and money to tell others about Christ?  Certainly neither time, nor money, nor all the persuasive speech in the entire world, nor any human condition, can add someone's name to the Lamb's Book of Life!  Predestination teaches us that elect mankind's sin has been paid from before the foundation of the world.  So then why do we have to accept that Jesus loves us and has already forgiven us if we are already forgiven?

We need to be saved from our corrupt and self-righteous hearts in order to know God as our loving Heavenly Father and begin to fellowship with him!  Our hearts need to be changed toward God because God wants to be our friend.  God's heart does not need to be changed toward us.  He is resolute in his love!  Jesus is bringing lost sheep into his fold.  We also need the indwelling Holy Spirit to fight against destructive sin in our lives.  Furthermore, if our hearts are not changed we will not escape punishment in Hades, nor will we even want to be in Paradise worshiping Christ until we are changed.  Are we still like Adam and Eve hiding in the garden behind religion, atheism, or agnosticism?  Why not hear God's voice of forgiveness calling our names?  Friends, simple confidence that God has already forgiven us and all mankind from the cross will change our hearts and prepare us for joy with Christ and ALL his people.  We must accept his unconditional love to have a changed heart, to repent of our hypocrisy, to begin fellowship with Christ, and to escape punishment in Hades.  Why wait?  Yet unbelievers must be warned that even if they waste their lives with religion, destroy their lives with sin, and suffer an age in Hades resisting grace until the very threshold of eternal damnation, even so, not they or any human being for whom Christ died will ever enter the Lake of Fire which is prepared for... the Devil and his angels.

CONSIDER "IT"!

The religious Jews who crucified Christ did so because they hated him.  Christ rejected their religion and the Jews hated him for that.  Christ also befriended the Gentiles and told them they didn't need the Jewish religion and the Jews hated him for that. Friends, are we modern day "Jews" who have made a religion out of "Christ?"  The gentiles likewise joined in hatred toward Christ for his claim to be the only way to God. Are we modern day "Gentiles" whose open minds are closed to the grace of God given only through his Son Jesus Christ?  Yes, the name of "Jesus" is on our lips and maybe in our worship songs, but have we restricted the love of God from all mankind?  Have we said God does not love all mankind along with the Calvinist?  Have we added human condition to the grace of God?  Have we said God only forgives those who accept Jesus along with the Arminian?  If so we crucify Christ all over again no matter how much we praise Christ's name!

Can Such a Minority View Be True?

FRIEND>> How can such a minority viewpoint be true or even worth consideration?  Furthermore, Christians have translated and studied the Scriptures for 2,000 years.  How can you suggest that there is a mistranslation of the word "eternal?"

ME>> Those are excellent questions.  In fact I have asked them of myself quite often over the past year.  Let me give reply.

We both agree that "narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it" (Matthew 7:14 WEB). However, some have complained that my understanding is not only narrow, but is the minority of an already small minority.  The first point is that one should not think of my view as a minority of the minority or a sub-set of the sub-set.  True believers have always been a very small minority throughout history.  However, the next larger group has been the religious, and then the largest group is the a-religious.  So while the repentant stand at the foot of the cross, the self-righteous and the unrighteous fall to the left and the right of true healing.  So the paramount question is not how large a particular group is, but instead what is the truth?  A second equally important question is whether we are believers, merely religious, or pagan?  The body of religious people has always been greater than the body of true believers.

Consider Joshua and Caleb.  These two men and their families were the lone believers when the scouts returned from the Promised Land in the book of Exodus.  The entire family of Israelites followed the complaining and fears of the unbelieving scouts and thus were excluded from entering the Promised Land.  Two people and their families are a pretty small minority out of roughly two million Israelites.  In fact Hebrews 3:16 - 4:2 uses this very example to urge those that will listen to place their faith in Christ in the present generation.

You are also right to question my authority to suggest that the word "eternal" is mistranslated in the New Testament.  I do not have formal training in Greek or Hebrew.  I could not even recite the Greek alphabet in order.  Yet I have been compelled by grace to answer the question of the extent of God's grace toward not only myself, but also my fellow human beings.  Through study of the Greek lexicon on my shelf and critical online resources, I do not only suggest, but assert that the Greek words "aion" and "aionian" never mean simple eternal time, but instead most definitely mean "age," "eonian," "entire," or "complete."  This observation alone should be motivation for every Christian to at least reconsider the great question of the final salvation of our fellowman.  Everyone in the least acquainted with saving grace and God's unconditional love ought to be driven to muster their greatest energies to learn about the extent of God's love for others.  I do not find tradition a safe place to stand, especially, in light of history.  Do you?

Of course if you do not find my Greek research trustworthy, I am not offended.  But please check out John Wesley Hanson's classic 1875 work titled, The Greek Word Aion-Aionios translated Everlasting-Eternal in the Holy Bible Shown to Denote Limited Duration.  This classic work is available for free from the U.S. Library of Congress website and also from my own website.  Dr. Heleen Keizer has also written a dissertation proving the same titled, Life, Time, Entirety - A Study of Aion in Greek Literature and Philosophy, the Septuagint and Philo.  You can read her 315 page dissertation online or an abstract of her conclusions on my website.  Young's Literal Translation also properly translates the Greek word "aion" as "age."

Compatibilism is the Answer? (AKA Molinism)

FRIEND>> Compatibilism is the answer! Your arguments pit God's sovereignty against man's free will.  That is the error of your thinking because these ideas can co-exist and they are compatible.

ME>> So you say... and actually compatibilism is the majority view held by both the schooled and unschooled theologian alike.  A basic explanation of compatibilism can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism.  Compatibilism really is a variation of the 16th century heresy, Molinism, explained at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism.  Both attack the sovereign grace of God so that man can be god of his own salvation.

Those that hold this view should at least consider the challenge of Martin Luther in his book, Bondage of the Will.  Frankly, most American Protestants do not even understand the heart of Luther's Reformation and the contest that was at stake for the gospel of grace at that time.  Luther strongly stated, "If any man doth ascribe aught of salvation, even the very least, to the free-will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright."  Sadly many protestant churches pride themselves claiming to hold the true gospel, while thinking that Catholics fall short.  The truth is, however, that both Catholicism and American Protestantism continue to make the same mistake that Luther tried to correct!  I find this misguided Protestant finger pointing to be offensive and massively hypocritical.  Luther's book, Bondage of the Will, is a must read for this generation.  I have also written my own short article on the same subject, A Quintessential Defense of FREE WILL.

Why do Christians continue to cling to their own supposed free will, instead of clinging to the gracious free will of the Savior?  Why would we be so motivated to invent such an odd word as "compatibilism" to defend the incompatible?  Why not instead seek the Lord, even pound on the doors of heaven for a better answer?  Why not consider the happy truth that Christ willed to pay for the sins of ALL mankind completely apart from our will?  The cursing of Peter makes it abundantly clear that no one freely willed that Christ die on the cross to pay for our sin except our gracious God himself, Matthew 26:74.  Perhaps you are cursing too?

Did John Calvin Originate Calvinism?

READER>> Did Calvinism Originate with John Calvin?

ME>>  Actually, John Calvin did not originate Calvinistic thought.  The roots of Calvin's theology are also evident in the theology of Saint Augustine, a most famous Catholic priest from the 4th Century.  This is a very curious fact considering that the Catholic Church then condemned Calvin and some of the Reformers for holding to Augustine's theology in the 16th Century!  Sadly Christians have gone back and forth from Calvinism to Arminianism through the centuries because neither theologies find complete support from the Scriptures.  As far as the understanding of Augustine and Calvin, there appear to be some differences, but the essence of "Calvinism" is shared by both these men.

Saint Augustine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo
http://www.theopedia.com/Augustinianism 

John Calvin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism

 

Eschatology is the Study of Future Good News!

READER>> What is your view of eschatology?

ME>> Eschatology is one of the most difficult and dividing sciences in Christian theology.  Eschatology is the part of theology concerned with death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of mankind.  Eschatology is simply the study of future good news!  The challenge is understanding and interpreting Biblical prophecy about the future of mankind's redemption.  The bold claim of the Optimism Out of Control book is the complete and final salvation of all mankind.  This claim, if reasonable, must then be consistent with Biblical prophecy about the future of mankind's redemption.

So how and when will Jesus return?  What future hope remains for mankind's redemption?  G. Campbell Morgan wrote God's Methods with Man.  He and many others have designed various charts of the history of redemption.  Motivated by these charts and studying the Bible, I propose my own chart of the history of redemption below.

Unfortunately just like other areas of discussion, not all Christians agree.  So there are several main veins of thought to consider.  They are each oriented around different understandings of Jesus Christ's return with respect to the 1,000 year epoch before the Great White Throne Judgment described in Revelation Chapter 20.  The major views are summarized as follows:

  1. Dispensational Pre-Millennialism, Future
    1. The literal 1,000 year epoch remains still future.
    2. Christ will return physically to inaugurate the Millennial Kingdom.
    3. Old Covenant worship will be revived to fulfill Old Testament prophecy.
    4. Commended for insisting there is future hope for ethnic Israel.
    5. Anti-Christian for reviving the Old Covenant after the glorious New Covenant.
    6. Endorsed by Darby, Scofield, Ryrie, and others.
    7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism

  2. Non-Dispensational Pre-Millennialism, Future
    1. The literal 1,000 year epoch remains still future.
    2. Christ will return physically to inaugurate the Millennial Kingdom.
    3. Christ will reign on earth as New Covenant King to further demonstrate grace.
    4. Commended for not reading external meaning into Biblical symbols.
    5. Can neglect the relevance of Old Testament symbols and first century context.
    6. Endorsed by Spurgeon, Schaeffer, Erickson, and others.
    7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_premillennialism

  3. A-Millennialism, Present
    1. The figurative 1,000 years from Christ's first to second advent, the Church Age.
    2. Christ will return after the Church Age to inaugurate the New Heavens and Earth.
    3. Christ reigns from Heaven now and will reign physically on earth then.
    4. Commended for navigating toward the simplest sensible model.
    5. Yet if Isaiah 65:20 is the final New Heavens and Earth why is there death?
    6. Endorsed by Augustine, Hoekema, Riddlebarger, and others.
    7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amillennialism

  4. Realized Post-Millennialism, Past
    1. The literal 1,000 year epoch was the Church Age to the Great Schism, 1054 A.D..
    2. Christ will return in the future to inaugurate the New Heavens and Earth.
    3. Christ reigns from Heaven now and will reign physically on earth then.
    4. Commended for similar simplicity with A-Millennialism.
    5. Stretches the timing of Revelation 20:7-15 from 1054 A.D. to Christ's return.
    6. Endorsed by some Roman Catholics and others.
    7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-West_Schism

  5. Post-Millennialism, Future
    1. The literal 1,000 year epoch remains still future.
    2. Christ reigns through Gospel Victory to usher in the Millennial Kingdom.
    3. Christ will return after the Millennium to inaugurate the New Heavens and Earth.
    4. Commended for great hope and optimism in the power of the gospel.
    5. Can neglect that gospel progress proceeds at the pace of God's choosing.
    6. Endorsed by Calvin, Boettner, Rushdoony, and others.
    7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmillennialism

  6. Variations of the Above Can Include
    1. Partial Preterism like Christ's judgment on Jerusalem in 70 A.D., Matthew 24:15.
    2. Prophecies about repentant Israel's special roles still future, Isaiah 66:12.
    3. Optimistic, pessimistic, or realistic outlooks for the temporal future.
    4. Ranges of Biblical interpretive methods from literal to symbolic.
    5. Short and long range prophecy as well as dual fulfillment, Matthew 24:3.
    6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology
    7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatological_views

  7. Full Preterism (all prophecy is fully realized)
    1. The 1,000 years is the figurative span from Christ's first advent to 70 A.D..
    2. Christ's second coming was his judgment on Jerusalem in 70 A.D..
    3. Christ reigns as king in Heaven with no future physical coming prophesied.
    4. Commended for observing that prophecies may already be fulfilled.
    5. "Blessed Hopelessness" for saying that all prophecy is already fulfilled, Titus 2:13.
    6. Endorsed by Alcasar, Preston, Harden, and others.
    7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism

The views above are listed on a continuum from Old Testament promises not yet realized to New Testament promises completely realized.  The Dispensational and Full Preterist views are understood to fall outside of Christian orthodoxy.  Yet since eschatology is such a difficult subject matter Christendom has been more or less accommodating to each of the other views.  A more thorough study and explanation could take volumes and even after studying numerous volumes myself I find it hard to determine the matter with the confidence I would prefer.

Ezekiel confronted the pride of the King of Tyre prodding that he was "wiser than Daniel."  Yet Daniel had the wisdom to confess after receiving prophetic visions, "I heard, but I didn't understand," (Daniel 12:8 WEB).  I confess that I hear, but do not understand as clearly as I would prefer.  Yet Jesus still urges us, "let the reader understand," (Matthew 24:15 WEB).  So we seek understanding.

In the end I am convinced that my primary thesis, that all mankind will be finally saved, can be consistently integrated with many of the proposed views above.  Though one's understanding of Jesus' words "this age", "the age to come", and "the ages to come" will of course be different according to one's preferred framework.  We also know that conflicting frameworks cannot all be right.  Certainly all of the proposed models above miss the mark to some degree, some more and some less.  This is unsettling.  I wish I could add a more definite view of eschatology to the defense of my thesis.  Yet, even so, my list of proofs in the body of Optimism Out of Control are more than sufficient evidence of God's love for all mankind, at least enough evidence for me.

That said, I will share my current understanding about Christ's promised return in order have greater appeal to my reader through my transparency.  As a simple church goer I held the Pan-Millennial view, that is it would all "pan out" in the end.  I still hold this view!  After coming to faith I initially held to the Non-Dispensational Pre-Millennial Future understanding.  Then, frankly while working on this book I moved to the A-Millennial or Church Age understanding.  The good news is that the next major event anticipated for both of these views is the return of Christ.  So whatever confusion remains now will certainly be cleared up then!  Since my understanding has recently changed I ask your patience if you discover inconsistencies in my words.

Several observations have pointed me to the A-Millennial or Church Age model of understanding.  First, Revelation 20:1-6 does not say anything about the Millennium being a supernatural time of peace, but simply that Satan is restricted from deceiving the nations.  Since 1 Peter 5:8 warns us that Satan is prowling around seeking to devour individuals, Revelation 20:3,8 could simply be saying that Satan is restricted from rallying the nations against Christ's people.  Second, Isaiah 65:17-25 and 66 are explicitly prophesying about the New Heavens and Earth, not a Millennial Kingdom.  Admittedly Isaiah 65:20 does not appear to fit the New Heavens and Earth because of its mention of child birth and death.  However, the explicit identity of this forecast is not the Millennium, but the New Heavens and Earth.  Third, Ezekiel's temple and the river that flows from it are clearly a picture of the infinite love, grace, and mercy found in Jesus Christ.  A literal display of Ezekiel's temple and river would not even fit on the planet!  Models that insist in the revival of Old Covenant temple worship to satisfy Ezekiel's and other Old Testament prophecy have missed the main point of the book of Hebrews.  These models also miss the Holy Spirit's use of Old Testament symbol hyperbole to point to the glory of Christ's first advent.  Fourth, Matthew 24:3 lists two or three questions from the disciples.  Thus, it is no stretch at all to see that Jesus' answer includes both partial preteristic statements about his coming judgment on Jerusalem in 70 A.D. as well as his second coming in glory as reigning king at the end of the Church Age.  Fifth, Jesus warns that blasphemy of the Spirit in Matthew 12:30-32 will not be forgiven in "this age" or "the coming."  Universalists commonly understand that unbelieving humans will suffer in the "coming age" of the Lake of Fire, but then eventually be saved even from there.  Since, I hold that humans will never enter the Lake of Fire then what is "the coming" age?  As a Pre-Millennialist the answer was the coming Millennial Kingdom.  However, now as an A-Millennialist "this age" could instead refer to the end of the Jewish Age, while "the coming" is the Church Age.  Sixth, the living, reigning, and first resurrection of the saints in Revelation 20:4-5 is often understood to be the physical resurrection at a Pre-Millennial rapture.  However, the passage is just as easily understood to be the spiritual resurrection to new life as a Christian.  Also the Holy Spirit is encouraging us that Christians who are terribly martyred have not lost, but are victors in Heaven until we will meet them again in glory.  Seventh, while Preterism makes essential points that Christ did come in judgment on Jerusalem in 70 A.D., Full Preterists make a gross error negating Christ's promise to return in the body to consummate the marriage to his bride, John 14:3 and Acts 1:11.   So reasonable explanations can be found for the A-Millennial Church Age understanding while defending the universal salvation of all mankind.

Below is my proposed chart of redemptive history with twelve categories of people, eight ages of redemptive history, and the location of these people during each era.  Please note that I do not list twelve and eight divisions as if they were special numerical divisions as some forms of Dispensationalism attempt.  Instead these categories are simply for illustrative purposes. The chart shows the distinction between the redeemed and the unredeemed, that is mankind versus fallen angels, as explained in my article, Revelation 20:10.  The chart below also shows the distinction between Hades, Tartarus / Thalaasa, and the Lake of Fire, that is temporal punishment versus damnation for The Ages of The Ages, as explained in my article, 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10.  Understanding this is a great hope for those trusting that Christ has paid for the sin of all mankind.

The chart is complex.  For the best reading strategy choose a category of people and follow their location horizontally across the ages of redemptive history.  Alternatively choose an age of redemptive history and consider the locations vertically down the categories of people.  Do you know who you are?  Where you are?  What time it is?

Who When Where What How Why

The basis for this chart is several critical observations from Scripture. (printable version)

First, Hades, Tartarus / Thalaasa, and the Lake of Fire are not the same place according to Luke 16:23, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6, and Revelation 20:13-14.  Furthermore, both Hades and Tartarus / Thalaasa, a prison for demons being held for future judgment, are temporary locations, emptied of their unbelieving human inhabitants as well as their imprisoned demons at the Great White Throne Judgment.  Punishment in Hades is distinct from condemnation in the Lake of Fire because Hades is for an Age whereas The Lake of Fire is for The Ages of The Ages.  Punishment in Hades is also distinct because God cares for the unbelieving humans punished in Hades (Psalm 139:8 and 1 Peter 4:6).  However, God does not appear to care for Satan (Genesis 3:15 and Hebrews 2:16), and damns fallen angels to the Lake of Fire for The Ages of The Ages (Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:7-10).

Second, Christ has redeemed all mankind, believing and unbelieving, as the second Adam, our vicarious substitute.  (See Romans 5:12-21, Romans 11:32, and 1 John 2:1-2.)  However, he has apparently not redeemed fallen angels (Hebrews 2:16).

Third, faith does not cause redemption, but faith receives the redemption already given at the cross by the death of Christ (Romans 5:10).  Faith is repentance from self-righteousness to receive Christ's righteousness already given (Romans 1:17 and Ephesians 2:8).  Free will choice is not the condition to God's unconditional love, but a changed heart is happy to trust in God's unconditional love (John 3:3).

Fourth, the believing redeemed will join Christ in paradise after death (Luke 23:43) and will be resurrected at Christ's return to rule with him again on Earth (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 and Revelation 20:4). The unbelieving redeemed will suffer in Hades if they do not repent from their self-righteousness and receive grace through faith (Luke 16:23 and 2 Peter 2:1), and apparently they will stay in Hades until the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:5).  Though 1 Peter 3:18-20 and 4:6 might suggest that new life can be realized even for some in Hades.  Christians and perhaps all mankind will also need to stand before Christ at the Bema Seat Judgment as explained in Romans 14:10-12 and 2 Corinthians 5:10.  I am not sure of the timing of this event or whether it is a personal or group interview with Christ.  We should make ourselves ready.

Fifth, the Lake of Fire, the second death, is prepared for the Devil and his Angels, not Mankind, as explained in my article, Matthew 25:31-46.  Furthermore, it is wrongly assumed that the judgments in the Bible are for humans only and divide believer from unbelievers, when instead some of these judgments include both humans and fallen angels and divide the sheep from goats (Matthew 25:41, 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6, and Revelation 20:7-15).  Some conclude that even Satan and his Angels will be redeemed based on the "all" of Colossians 1:20.  This is a small difference with my understanding.  We all can see that the pages of the Bible end with those named in the Lamb's Book of Life enjoying God's presence for a blessed eternity.  I and many others have also argued that those finally saved are all Mankind by means of Christ's atonement (1 John 2:1-2 and Revelation 20:15).  The pages of the Bible also end with Satan's head crushed, as promised in Genesis 3:15, and with the fallen angels cast into the Lake of Fire for The Ages of The Ages (Revelation 20:10).  If grace is ever extended to Satan, it is not explicitly stated in the Bible.  Obviously the chart above is fairly comprehensive, but it does not include every concept.  For example at one point in history Satan had direct access to God's throne (Job 1:6) but at another point in history he is denied this access (Revelation 12:7-12).

Sixth, Peter said in Acts 3:21 (WEB), "whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God spoke long ago by the mouth of his holy prophets."  The Greek word translated as "restoration" is "apocatastasis" which Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines as, "the restoration of that perfect state of things that existed before the fall."   Ilaria Ramelli and David Konstan point out in Terms for Eternity: Aionios and Aidios in Classical and Christian Texts that "aion," typically translated "eternal" in the English New Testament, instead generally means "age" or "eon."  They also note that the definitive Greek word for eternal, "aidios" is only used twice in the Bible: once in Romans 1:20 concerning God and once in Jude 6 concerning the bonds on fallen angels. Since Ramelli and Konstan argue even for the salvation of Satan they conclude that "aidios" in Jude 6 must mean transcending the ages, but not finally eternal. They reason that these demons are being "held for judgment" and thus there must be an end to these "aidios" bonds after their judgment.  However, it could also be that these demons with "aidios" bonds are held in Tartarus / Thalaasa to be extracted for sentencing at the Great White Throne Judgment and then with the "aidios" bonds still on they are cast into the Lake of Fire. Thus they are held for judgment, but the "aidios" bonds are not released as they are cast into the Lake of Fire.  This is one data point for the argument that fallen angels are eternally damned.  Further, if the Sheep and Goat Judgment of Matthew 25 is synonymous with the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20 and with the Great Judgment Day of Jude 6 for the imprisoned angels, then it is clear that the goats are held for judgment and further sentenced to the Lake of Fire. So the "aidios" bonds do not end at the Great Day of their judgment, but continue further.  How much further?  Is the "apocatastasis" fulfilled with the final salvation of mankind at the Great White Throne Judgment?  Or is there further fulfillment of the "apocatastasis" with the salvation of the Devil and his angels sometime after The Ages of The Ages beyond the pages of Scripture?

The point is that our lover, Jesus Christ, is currently away, but he is returning and has told us many things about his future plans to "make his enemies a footstool" and to return for his bride, the church, and to consummate eternity with the final salvation of all mankind.  Biblical Christianity offers great hope for mankind!  Do not settle for anything less!

Eschatology is the Study of Future Good News! (Part 2 with Grudem, Riddlebarger, Chilton, Summers, and Ewing)

READER>> What is more of your view of eschatology?

ME>> Previously I mentioned that I hold the A-Millennial understanding of future things.  I believe that the present Church Age is the Millennial Kingdom of Revelation 20:1-6 and that the second coming of Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment will occur at the end of this present Church Age.  The eternal New Heavens and Earth will then begin after that.

Below are a few books on my shelf from various viewpoints that I recommended for your own study.  Of course the hard work of Bible study is always recommended.  Yet the books below may be the next best option to inviting Grudem, Riddlebarger, Chilton, Summers, and Ewing to your own Bible study.  Also, I have read books on Dispensational Pre-Millennialism and Full Preterism, but do not recommend any below because of their distance from Christian orthodoxy.  The works I do list below span the Non-Dispensational Pre-Millennial, A-Millennial, and Post Millennial views.  However, you will note after reading them that they do not define one another's labels consistently.  Take care not to get ensnared in semantic or camp jargon debate.

 


 

Wayne Grudem wrote Making Sense of the Future, a primer on Christian eschatology from a non-dispensational pre-Millennial view point.  Grudem is a careful theologian listing numerous Biblical proofs for any position that he holds, including eschatology.  For example, he references Psalm 72, Isaiah 11, Isaiah 65, and Zechariah 14 as pointing to a future Millennial reign of Christ on earth.  On page 72, Grudem says, "All this speaks of an age far different from the present age, but short of the eternal state in which there is no more sin or suffering."  I find much value in Grudem's analysis, though I have recently stepped away from the pre-millennial understanding.

 

David Chilton wrote Paradise Restored, A Biblical Theology of Dominion just as the famed John Milton wrote Paradise Lost as well as Paradise Regained.  Both Milton and Chilton have much to write about Paradise!  Chilton's work represents the Post-Millennial view.  Yet he explains that the length of the 1,000 years is the figurative time frame of the Church Age, similar to the A-Millennial view of Riddlebarger.  So how do they differ?  The nature of the Millennial Kingdom proposed by Chilton is more Kingdom-like with a call for Christians to work through civil government to "Christianize" the nations.  Chilton emphasizes greater continuity between the Old and New Covenants even suggesting that failed Israel was ex-communicated from the church.  However, most Christians would instead say that unbelieving Israel has not joined the church until they bow to personal faith in Christ.

 

Kim Riddlebarger wrote A Case for A-Millennialism: Understanding the End Times. Riddlebarger defends the A-Millennial position, not that "A" means "No" Millennial Kingdom.  Instead he explains that the 1,000 years of Revelation 20:1-6 is the figurative length of time for the Church Age, between Christ's first and second advent.  His arguments and others persuaded me to adopt this view.  For example he notes that Revelation 20:1-6 says nothing about the 1,000 years being a time a peace, but only that Satan is restricted from deceiving the nations.  While I might not agree with all Riddlebarger's analysis and assignment of Revelation's symbols, I found his book to be extremely helpful to understand what is happening in the present Church Age.

 

Ray Summers wrote Worthy is the Lamb, An Interpretation of Revelation.  Summers defends partial preterist components of Revelation such as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D..  He also defends futuristic components such as the second coming of Christ.  Summers adds insight into the methods that are best used when interpreting the symbols and images found within Revelation.  He reminds us of the relevance of Old Testament symbols, first century context, and styles found in apocalyptic literature.  For example, in the midst of Revelation's war theme, Summers reminds us that first century Christians were especially hated by the Romans because they refused to participate in the state war function.  They followed the Lamb!  Summers does go further than I prefer when interpreting symbols at a few points, but he adds considerably to the discussion.

 

Ragan Ewing wrote The Identification of Babylon the Harlot in the Book of Revelation. Ewing's effort is not a book per-say, but his doctrinal defense.  Ewing wrote his Master's Thesis for Dallas Theological Seminary in 2002 and argues that Babylon the Harlot in the book of Revelation is in fact first century Jerusalem.  He meticulously defends both external evidence for a pre-70 A.D. authorship of Revelation as well as internal evidence that identifies Jerusalem as the adulterer that played the harlot with Rome.  Ewing also points out that a pre-70 A.D. authorship is not essential to understanding Jerusalem as the Harlot.  If authored after 70 A.D. Revelation could then instead be explaining the fate of Jerusalem rather than predicting it.  Also Ewing did not mention but could have further noted that Revelation is John's contribution to the same subject matter as Matthew and Luke's Olivet Discourse, the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. as predicted in Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20.  Ewing's complete text is available online and also from my website.


 

Efforts and theories have been multiplied and exponentiated to make sense of John's Revelation, especially Chapter 13 and the famed number of the Beast, 666.  I hope to avoid adding my ignorance to the discussion except as it relates to determining the nature of the members of the Unholy Trinity: The Dragon (Satan), The Beast (First / Sea Beast), and The False Prophet (Second / Land Beast).  Are they human beings, demonic beings, or non-being forces?  Several simple observations may guide our understanding of Revelation.

First, John does not invent Revelation's symbols to communicate a message with his own wisdom. Instead he records what Christ revealed to him in visions about the real interactions between the immaterial and material world, the unseen and the seen, Heaven and Earth.  Thus, one would expect the images seen by John to be illustrative rather than photographic.  After all, just how does one photograph the awesome glory and majesty of the unseen world?  Isaiah saw Heaven's throne, only in part, and was completely undone, Isaiah 6:5. How does one videotape the war between the Archangel Michael and God's Archenemy Satan?  Well, it is being fought out in the world around us, but Jesus helps us to see better with the illustrations that he painted for John to share with us.  However, just because the paintings are illustrations, even cartoonish, that does not mean they represent the ethereal.  Satan is not a fictional or conceptual Dragon, but a supernatural spirit being, a fallen angel, who leads real demons in a real war against God and his people.

Second, the Revelation of Jesus Christ given to John is set on a stage with many of the backstage curtains pulled aside.  The drama that John saw reveals the interactions between the immaterial and material world, the unseen and the seen, Heaven and Earth.  Thus the people, places, and things in view may be front stage, back stage, or moving between.  Wisdom must then be used when interpreting the actors and props seen, whether they are front stage or back stage, that is earthly or Heavenly, or even a combination.  Those demanding literalistic or excessive complication in the interpretation of Revelation's drama have missed the context.

Third, we should observe an important pattern shared by the Gospel of John, John's first epistle, and Revelation.  Each of his books is introduced with a poetic division of threes that is evident as a structural framework for the book.  The Gospel of John begins, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1 WEB).  Three dimensions of Christ are listed.  Furthermore, John's Gospel is filled with various sets of sevens, just like Revelation!  Likewise John's epistle begins, "That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we saw, and our hands touched, concerning the Word of life" (1 John 1:1 WEB).  The epistle content is structured around the three senses of hearing, sight, and touch!  Now, in Revelation 1:4 (WEB) we read "John, to the seven assemblies that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from God, who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before his throne." Apparently by no coincidence we see the three of past, present, and future, and again seven spirits!  Revelation 1:8 (WEB) says again, " 'I am the Alpha and the Omega,' says the Lord God, 'who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.' "  Revelation 1:19 (WEB) also agrees, "Write therefore the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will happen hereafter."  So while the debate in Revelation often centers on what is first century and what is future, we should also be reminded to consider what was already past!  For example we might try to determine what single point in history is referred to by the Great Tribulation, when the drama actually on stage is the Great Tribulation of Satan's war against God and mankind from Genesis 3:1 to Revelation 20:10.  This drama contains the three elements of past, present, and future for the 1st century Christians then... and for 21st century Christians now.  Thus, first century Christians were encouraged to hold fast by the example of martyrs in their past as we are encouraged to hold on by their example now.  Revelation contains a vital message for all Christians during the entire Church Age.

Fourth, the immaterial unseen world is real.  It is substantial.  It is tangible, though not through physical senses.  For example, read 2 Kings Chapter 6 to learn from Elisha about the near presence of the holy angels protecting God's people.  Read Daniel Chapter 10 for a rare exchange, the angel Gabriel revealing his and the Archangel Michael's battle with the Prince and Kings of Persia.  The veil is briefly removed between the unseen and the seen.  Paul also warns in 1 Corinthians 10:20 that the pagan sacrifices of unbelievers are in fact offered to demons!  While pagans may be blind to the fact, any idolatry is in fact a victory for Satan.  The unseen enemies of God actually rejoice behind the curtain in their victories as people fall to the worship of false gods, or even fall to baser materialism and sensuality.

Fifth, just as Michael and Gabriel had and have specific assignments in the war against Satan, and just as guardian angels are assigned to their children, Matthew 18:10, so Satan and his demons attack specifically and purposefully.  Satan and his demons are not nebulous enemies, but are people (though not human) with names, minds, wills, and intent to harm mankind.  They strategize, plan, act, and regroup.  Just as God commands his righteous angels on the battlefield, so Satan commands his demons.

Now consider Revelation 16:13-14 (WEB),

13) I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits, something like frogs; 14) for they are spirits of demons, performing signs; which go out to the kings of the whole inhabited earth, to gather them together for the war of that great day of God, the Almighty.

 

Satan knew his time was short because he lost the greatest battle in the first century.  Christ conquered all at the cross and now reigns on David's throne as King of Heaven. Satan is doomed and he knows it.  Understanding the present Church Age to be the Millennial Reign of Christ, in Revelation 20:1-6, we see that The Beast and the False Prophet are damned to the Lake of Fire since the first century, Revelation 19:20.  The defeat and removal of the influence of these demons was the eventual death of the wicked Roman Empire.  Ewing's proposal above also makes good sense as we see Revelation Chapter 17 and 18 forecast the destruction of Old Covenant unbelieving Jerusalem, illustrated as the Harlot who rode The Beast.   We also see that Satan is temporarily restrained from deceiving the nations from the first century until the very end, Revelation 20:2.

However, just before this restraint happened, Revelation 16:13-14 records that the Unholy Trinity releases three demons assigned to the kings of earth to prepare for the final battle to be fought on that Great Day of the Lord at the end of the Church Age, Revelation 20:7-10.  The Beast and The False Prophet are permanently locked up. Satan is temporarily locked up.  However, their demon "frog" agents have been merking in the mire for 2,000 years in preparation for the final battle when their leader, Satan, is released for one last contest at the end of the Church Age.  One does not need to look too far or even have great insight to see the influence of these demon "frog" sons of Satan still at work in our world.  Obviously, "frog" is a metaphor for these demons, perhaps to describe their stealth, quick and deadly accuracy, amphibious adaptability, ability to hibernate, or ability to multiply tragedy like tadpoles.  Thankfully, we know that Christ has promised victory!

7) And after the thousand years, Satan will be released from his prison, 8) and he will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war; the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9) They went up over the width of the earth, and surrounded the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. Fire came down out of heaven from God, and devoured them. 10) The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:7-10 (WEB)

 

Since the introduction of Revelation indicates subject matter that is past, present, and future some have concluded that the symbols of Revelation are not specific, but instead typify various wicked kingdoms and kings through all Church history.  Certainly some of the symbols are general in nature, but we see that The Beast and The False Prophet are specifically cast into the Lake of Fire at the beginning of the Church Age Millennium.  We also see that Satan is presently bound from deceiving the nations, but that he will be released in the future.  These are specific accounts of victory for the first century church, not idealized illustrations.  Yet they are also the founding examples of victory that Christians have won, and will win through the entire Church Age until the last Great Battle.

Revelation had a critical message for the first century church and has a critical message for the church today!  The Christians of the first century faced incredible persecution from both the Jew and the Roman at the inauguration of the New Covenant Christian faith.  Revelation guaranteed victory to the fledgling first century church in their dire contest with the adulterous harlot Jerusalem, the demonic empowered Roman government, and the demon possessed Roman Caesar.  Christ himself destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and eventually the demonic Roman powers that hated the Church.  He bound Satan and threw The Beast and the False Prophet into the Lake of Fire.  Victory!

Now, however, the Church to this very day should be both warned and encouraged.  We must be warned that Satan, The Beast, and The False Prophet released their demon "frog" agents into our present world to prepare for the final battle of Gog and Magog on the Great Day of the Lord which remains yet in our future!  The good news is that just as victory was promised to the first century church, so victory is promised to God's people on that Great Day.  Through this radical plan Christ is unifying his one Church because believers through all Church history participate in the very same battle!  Both the Full Futurist and the Full Preterist miss this critical fact by pushing the message of Revelation fully into the future or fully into the past.   Yet God will demonstrate his grace both in and through his obedient Church with the grand finale of the same contest at the end of this present Church Age.

The great contest in the first century was led by Satan using the adulterous harlot Jerusalem, the demonic empowered Roman government, and the demon possessed Roman Caesar.  History proves that Satan has employed these same tactics again and again throughout the Church Age with his demon "frog" agents.  The ongoing influence of demons is evidenced to this day by false religions such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Mormonism.  These demons also build their lairs in the modern governmental infrastructures of Communism, Socialism, Fascism, and even Republics.  These lairs then become homes for demon crazed political leaders like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and Ho Chi Minh.  Of course we are each accountable for our choices, but if we do not choose Christ, then we are pawns and prey for Satan's destructive schemes of envy, selfishness, abortion, addiction, anger, genocide, greed, homosexuality, perversion, pornography, infidelity, divorce, and pride.  Satan's objective is to destroy by twisting, spoiling, contaminating, perverting, ruining, and breaking everything good that God has created.  The hymn writer warns that we live in a "world with devils filled."  I have proved in my article, You are Wrong About Matthew 25:31-46!, that the "ethnos" gathered before Christ at the final judgment includes both humans and demons, Matthew 25:32 and Revelation 20:13.  Thus it is no coincidence that Revelation 20:8 says that when Satan is released he will gather the "ethnos" for battle against God's people.  Satan will round up both his demons and unbelieving mankind, who so easily serve as his pawns, to attack God's people.

So are we following the example of the first century church?  Are we following the Lamb?  Are we ready to stand in battle like Christ and with Christ?  Are we battling mere flesh and blood or are we fighting the good fight against God's true enemy, that is Satan and his demons?

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world's rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Ephesians 6:12 (WEB)


One thing is clear, Satan's web of deception will be world-wide with a clear black and white division across the globe.  While God's grace currently endures lukewarm gray spaces in our world there will only be two categories of people on that day: the attacker and the attacked, the wolf and the lamb.  There will be no nations to oppose the 'Hitler' of that day.  Satan will be released to round up all the wicked to attack both God's beloved saints and his beloved city.  Though God destroyed unbelieving Jerusalem in 70 A.D. the fact that both the beloved saints and the beloved city will be attacked by Satan on that Great Day yet to come ought to give everyone pause.  God destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., but he still loves Israel dearly!  And so we return to the grand conclusion of Romans.

25) For I don't desire you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you won't be wise in your own conceits, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, 26) and so all Israel will be saved. Even as it is written,

"There will come out of Zion the Deliverer, and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.

27) This is my covenant to them, when I will take away their sins."

28) Concerning the Good News, they are enemies for your sake. But concerning the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. 29) For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30) For as you in time past were disobedient to God, but now have obtained mercy by their disobedience, 31) even so these also have now been disobedient, that by the mercy shown to you they may also obtain mercy. 32) For God has shut up all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.

Romans 11:25-32 (WEB)


Friend, if you fall short of trusting that Jesus does in fact love all mankind, every individual Jew and every individual gentile, you will be deceived into joining the attacker.  Flee your doubts!  Leave your false graceless religion!  Do not join Satan in attacking Christ's beloved!  God loves you and your neighbor!  Fight on God's side against Satan and his lies!  Stand like a lamb for God's people so the victorious Lamb can be your defender!

Essential Observations

OBJECTION>> The Optimism Out of Control book is too long and difficult to read.  Can you please summarize your essential observations?

ME>> Yes, I apologize for the length of the book.  While defending the truth that Jesus Christ is your savior, my savior, and the savior of all mankind I may have spent too many words answering objections.  I list my essential observations below.

  1. The salvation of mankind and the doom of Satan is the gospel. (Genesis 3:15)
  2. Why say God loves his enemies first, if it is merely an offer? (Romans 5:8-11)
  3. Grace by definition is unmerited unconditional blessing. (Romans 3:23-25)
  4. Faith is not a condition to, but trust in his unconditional love! (Romans 3:3-4)
  5. All mankind is atoned by Christ the God-man, the second Adam. (Romans 5:12-19)
  6. God bound all to sin so that he could give mercy to all. (Romans 11:32)
  7. Jesus, like Hosea, sometimes calls his lost sheep, "not my sheep." (John 10:26)
  8. Unbelieving humans are punished in Hades if unrepentant. (Luke 16:19-31)
  9. Hades is not the same place as the Lake of Fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)
  10. Hades is temporal and emptied at the final judgment. (Revelation 20:11-15)
  11. Why defeat Hades, if not to save the unbelieving dead? (Matthew 16:18)
  12. Christians, with Christ, are not judged at the final judgment. (1 Thessalonians 4:17)
  13. Unbelieving humans are at the final judgment. (Matthew 25:31-46, Revelation 20:13)
  14. Unbelieving humans are the sheep on Jesus' right. (Matthew 25:34-40, Rev 20:13)
  15. Some fallen angels are held for future judgment. (2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6)
  16. Fallen angels are at the final judgment. (Jude 6, Revelation 20:13)
  17. Jesus is not the helper of fallen angels. (Hebrews 2:16)
  18. Fallen angels are the goats on Jesus' left. (Matthew 25:41-46, Revelation 20:10-15)
  19. The Lake of Fire is prepared for Satan and his angels. (Matthew 25:41)
  20. Jesus allows unbelieving humans to fear the destiny of Satan. (Revelation 21:8)
  21. Christ's purpose is to show off his grace in kindness toward his chosen. (Ephesians 2:7)

I hope these points inspire valuable reflection for all Christians.

Perhaps my additional defense of the gospel of Christ's victorious grace was unneeded since there are so many already, some of which are reviewed in my article, Book Reviews.  However, I was well into writing Optimism Out of Control before realizing the ample existing witness.  Yet I do highlight two significant observations, which I have not seen elsewhere.  First, I note the distinct intermediate punishments of humans and fallen angels in Hades and Tartarus, and concluding destinies in Heaven and the Lake of Fire, respectively.  Second, I note that accurate hermeneutics must recognize that Jesus, like Hosea, sometimes calls his lost sheep, "not my sheep", and is willing to allow the rebellious elect to fear the destiny of Satan.  I hope these contributions to the discussion help the body of Christ grow further toward maturity.

Fallen Angels at The Great White Throne Judgment?

OBJECTOR>> Fallen angels will not be judged at The Great White Throne Judgment or The Sheep and Goat Judgment.  You are wrong about that.  The Goats on Jesus' left are unbelieving mankind that will be damned to the Lake of Fire.

ME>> I certainly respect that we have a different view of these things.  However, please consider one more amazing observation from the Scripture.  Traditional understanding holds that The Great White Throne Judgment and The Sheep and Goat Judgment are the final judgments of human beings.  Tradition maintains that believers, those who accepted Jesus, are the Sheep on the right, while unbelievers, those who die without faith, are the Goats on Jesus left.  Even many Christian Universalists think that unbelieving mankind is sent to the Lake of Fire, but that they are finally released sometime beyond the last page of the Bible. However, others in church history (including myself) differ from this traditional understanding for a number of reasons and now I want to bring one more totally amazing reason to the table.  Again, I am convinced that the Lake of Fire is only prepared for the devil and his angels and that no human being will ever enter these fires.  I am convinced that the final judgment of Jesus also includes the judgment of fallen angels and they alone are the Goats on Jesus' left sent to the Lake of Fire.

First, consider a quick review of my reasons already given.  If you have not already read my proof that Jesus is the Savior of all mankind, please start at the beginning of my book, Optimism Out of Control.

  • Jesus paid for the sins of all mankind, therefore not even one human being can be eternally damned, not even unbelieving mankind, 1 John 2:1-2.  If God himself has paid for our sin and his wrath is appeased, who then remains to condemn us?  Furthermore, faith does not cause our election to forgiveness, but instead faith trusts that we are already chosen for forgiveness from before the creation of the world, Ephesians 1:4!  But are not unbelievers punished after death?

  • Jesus does punish unbelieving mankind in Hades after death.  However, even in Hades his love for all mankind continues, Psalm 139:8.  Contrary to tradition, even unbelievers will be finally released from their punishments to receive salvation, Matthew 16:18 and Revelation 20:13.  Jesus deeply loves all mankind, yet there is still punishment in Hades for those who reject the grace of God even though they are already forgiven.  Punishment for the unbelieving is promised in 2 Thessalonians 2:9.  However, read the YLT Bible to see that the word "eternal" is mistranslated from the Greek word "aion" and should instead read "eon," "age," or "complete."  So unbelievers are punished for the "age" of Hades.  Love does not remove punishment, but instead God punishes us because he loves us!  But does Jesus love the fallen angels also?

  • Jesus does not help fallen angels, Hebrews 2:14-16.  Therefore demons will suffer the Lake of Fire.  Furthermore "The Ages of The Ages" of the Lake of Fire is quite different than the "Age" of Hades.  Jesus' plan from the beginning has been to crush the head of Satan, Genesis 3:15.  During the course of history, some demons have already been imprisoned in Tartarus for future judgment, 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6.  Scripture then ends with the salvation of the elect, even from Hades, and the condemnation of the Devil and his rebel angels to the Lake of Fire, Revelation 20:10.  So when will these fallen angels be judged?

  • Jesus' Sheep and Goat Judgment in Matthew 25 strongly appears to be the same as The Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation 20.  Since Scripture says that fallen angels are being "held for judgment" on "The Great Day," the most obvious timing for this judgment is the Sheep and Goat Judgment and The Great White Throne Judgment when Jesus stands all his subjects before him for final judgment. Daniel 12:1-4, Matthew 25:31-46, and Revelation 20:11-15 each appear to be talking about the same event.  So the subjects that stand before Jesus at the final judgment will include both the unbelieving humans just released from Hades and the demons just extracted from Tartarus.  But how can we be certain?

  • Jesus says explicitly that the Lake of Fire is... "prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41 WEB).  The Lake of Fire is not prepared for humans.  Though we deserve the same fate as the Devil and his Angels, yet because of the grace of Jesus mankind is spared damnation.  The Devil and his Angels, however, are sentenced to the Lake of Fire.  Is there more proof?

Some have objected to my understanding saying that fallen angels will not be present at The Sheep and Goat Judgment or at The Great White Throne Judgment.  However, the Scripture is clear that these fallen angels are presently being held for future judgment.  Consider,

For if God didn’t spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness to be reserved for judgment.

2 Peter 2:4 (WEB)

Angels who didn’t keep their first domain, but deserted their own dwelling place, he has kept in everlasting bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.

Jude 6 (WEB)


The Scripture is clear that these imprisoned fallen angels are being held for judgment at some point in the future.  Jude 6 is very clear that the timing of this judgment will be on "The Great Day."  I have proposed that this Great Day is the same day as The Sheep and Goat Judgment and The Great White Throne Judgment.

However, if that is not enough proof already (and I think it is), consider one last proof directly from Revelation 20:13 (WEB),

The sea [Thalaasa] gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works.


Have you ever thought it curious that both the sea [Thalassa] and Hades gave up the dead that are in them?  Why the distinction?  Why both Thalaasa and Hades?  Perhaps the reference to the sea and Hades is doubly expansive in order to communicate the certainty that all the dead will be raised.  Perhaps the language is slightly poetical or apocalyptic and so should not be pressed too hard for meaning.

Alternatively, the Holy Spirit is at least noting the distinction that people are released from two separate locations to stand before Christ's Throne.  Clearly one location is Hades, the temporary place of punishment for deceased unbelieving humanity.  Could Thalaasa then be the place of punishment for fallen angels or perhaps the retreat for fugitive fallen angels?

Consider two possible explanations.  First we note that the Holy Spirit borrows the term "Tartaroo" from Greek mythology in order to help the first century reader understand that the fallen angels are held in a separate, harsher prison than unbelieving mankind, 2 Peter 2:4.  There could be a connection between Thalaasa and Tartarus in that Thalaasa was a Greek goddess whose counterpart Tethys was a Titan imprisoned in... Tartarus.  There is also a small parallel between the mythological Titans and the speculation that the Nephilim were rebellious angels that pro-created with humans in Genesis 6:4, perhaps the very angels imprisoned in Tartarus.  Now I am not saying that the Holy Spirit believed in Greek mythology!  However, it may be that the mythological idea of the Titans was inspired by the historic Nephilim.  My main point is that rebels are escorted from both Hades and Thalaasa which offers further support for the presence of fallen angels at the final judgment.

Alternatively Thalaasa could simply refer to the sea.  Certainly we should not think that some deceased humans are in Hades while others are in the sea!  Instead, the sea could just as easily refer to the place of punishment for fallen angels or possibly the retreat for fugitive fallen angels.  For example, in Matthew 8:28-34 the Lord helped two demon possessed men by casting the demons into a herd of pigs, which then promptly downed themselves in the sea [Thalaasa].  Again, rebels are escorted from both Hades and Thalaasa which supports the presence of fallen angels at the final judgment.

Note also that Revelation 21:1b (WEB) says, "and the sea [Thalaasa] is no more."  This verse always seemed odd to me, that the New Heavens and Earth would not have seas.  However, in the context it seems clear that the meaning is that there will no longer be any place of temporary punishment or retreat for whoever was held in Thalaasa, perhaps the demons.  The punishing grounds of both Hades and Thalassa are to be ended!  Thus, mankind will be released from Hades and finally saved to glory through the grace of God alone.  They are the sheep at the Sheep and Goat Judgment, in Matthew 25!  The demons, however, are extracted from Thalassa to be judged and sentenced with Satan to the Lake of Fire for The Ages of The Ages.  They are the Goats at the Sheep and Goat Judgment!  This is good news concerning the final salvation of mankind.  This is also good news if you hope to enjoy the ocean on the New Earth!

So there is strong evidence for the presence of fallen angels at The Sheep and Goat Judgment, also called The Great White Throne Judgment.  First, these fallen angels are being held for punishment on "the great day" (Jude 6).  Second, the Lake of Fire is "prepared for... the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41 WEB). Third, Thalaasa, whether a picture from Greek mythology or simply the sea, is clearly a place distinct from Hades that is also emptied of rebels for judgment on that Great Day.

If you object to my proposal above you should at least answer these three questions.  Why do you think the Holy Spirit distinguishes between the dead in Thalaasa and the dead in Hades as mentioned in Revelation 20:13?  When do you think "The Great Day" is for the judgment of the fallen angels, I Peter 2:4 and Jude 6?  Why do you think Revelation 21:1 says there is no longer any sea?

So again it is further supported that the Goats on Jesus' left at The Sheep and Goat Judgment (that is The Great White Throne Judgment) are the fallen angels to be summoned from Tartarus or Thalassa to stand before Christ.  They are the Goats on Jesus' left sentenced to the Lake of Fire "prepared for the devil and his angels"  (Matthew 25:41 WEB).  Thus by the grace of Christ alone, no humans will ever enter The Lake of Fire!  Instead the Sheep on Jesus' right are unbelieving mankind to be released from Hades and finally graced with understanding and joy over their Savior and ours, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yet be warned by the gospel.  Humans who reject grace will be punished in Hades, even though their sins are forgiven, because the God who loves also disciplines!  Why test the Lord?  Repent and receive the good news that YOUR sins are forgiven... because the sins of ALL mankind are forgiven!

Forever Is Not Forever? You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

Some chide...

SOME>> Forever Is Not Forever?  You Gotta Be Kidding Me!

ME>> You make an excellent point.  I had come to the conclusion that "forever" and "eternal" in the New Testament must not always mean "forever" and "eternal" because the context of grace demands salvation satisfaction even for the unbelieving.  And so I concluded that the Holy Spirit used the word "forever" and "eternal" to describe the long, but finite time of punishment in Hades for the unbelieving.  I also concluded that if Abraham's faith could reasonably trust that God could "call things that are not, as though they were," then I was not unreasonable to conclude that God could save people from "eternal" punishment in Hell.  Furthermore, it is also evident and believed by orthodox Christians that Jesus abolished the "eternal" Old Covenant in his flesh.  So I concluded that "eternal" does not always mean "forever" when God is in the picture.

The Lord has, however, recently corrected my understanding.  My logic was sound but incomplete.  I had already shown that the Hebrew word "olam" does not always mean eternal, but instead it means the duration of the subject in view.  Every Hebrew lexicon denotes this fact.  Yet without much homework I concluded that the same must be true of the Greek word translated "eternal" in the New Testament, the Greek word "aion."  Recently the Lord blessed me through a reunion with John Wesley Hanson's classic 1875 work titled, The Greek Word Aion-Aionios translated Everlasting-Eternal in the Holy Bible Shown to Denote Limited Duration.  This classic work is available for free from the U.S. Library of Congress website and also from my own website.  This 88-page book is a must read for anyone who agrees or disagrees with my conclusions.  There is little point to my adding further to this definitive work.  Study this volume for yourself and your faith and understanding of the Bible will be challenged in radically positive ways, if you are willing to let go of all your self-righteousness.  Dr. Heleen Keizer has also written a dissertation proving the same titled, Life, Time, Entirety - A Study of Aion in Greek Literature and Philosophy, the Septuagint and Philo.  You can read her 315 page dissertation online or an abstract of her conclusions from my website.  You might think it is incredulous to claim that "aion" is mistranslated in many Bibles.  Unless you are competent in ancient Greek, you may not even know how to verify this for yourself.  The NASB-NIV Parallel New Testament in Greek in English is an invaluable resource on my shelf.  Young's Literal Translation is also a valuable resource.

Read Hanson's work for yourself, but here is my brief review:

1. Hanson and Keizer irrefutably prove that the Greek word "aion" is a synonym to the Hebrew word "olam" and that they both mean "the duration of the subject in view."  Thus "aion" can mean the finite duration of a man's life, the finite duration of the Old Covenant, the finite duration of Hades/Hell, the infinite duration of The Lake of Fire, and the infinite duration of God himself.

2. Hanson applies this definition to his interpretation of Matthew 25:31-46 and concludes that the "aion" in view is the Christian age in this world and that unbelievers' lives are punished and destroyed in this life when they reject Christ.  However, he concludes that these believers are saved from punishment in the afterlife through grace in spite of their unbelief.  This is a common view in many Christian Universalist circles.  They conclude that Hell is the pain suffered in this life by rejecting God's ways.  While this view may be attractive at the level of human reason, I find it to be unbiblical and I do not agree with it.

3. I do agree with Hanson's definition of the Greek word "aion," but I currently disagree with his application and interpretation of Matthew 25:31-46.  The "eternal fire" mentioned in Matthew 25:41 certainly appears to be the Lake of Fire spoken of in Revelation 20.  This is clear because the Devil and his angels are sentenced to this eternal fire.  Yet, I also agree with Hanson that no human beings are damned to the Lake of Fire.  So what is the explanation?  Hanson simply did not see that the Sheep and Goats standing before Christ at the Great White Throne judgment include both human beings and fallen angels.  2 Peter 2 makes it clear that there are both human beings and fallen angels currently imprisoned in Hades and Tartarus.  Hades and Thalassa are then emptied of both unbelieving mankind and the imprisoned angels at the Great White Throne judgment as explained in Revelation 20:13 and Matthew 25:31-46.  Human beings are saved on the right, while the fallen angels are sentenced to the Lake of Fire on the left.  How could the Holy Spirit be more clear when he says, "...prepared for the Devil and his angels."  I've explained this more completely in my articles, Matthew 25:31-46 and You are Wrong About Matthew 25:31-46!

4. Hanson also applies this understanding to verses like 2 Thessalonians 1:9.  In this case Hanson is certainly correct that Paul is reminding the new Thessalonian believers that the wicked unbelieving humans will punished at Christ's coming judgment.  However, we also see in Revelation that those punished in Hades are eventually extracted out.

5. Hanson also makes use of the argument that a God of love would never damn human beings for eternity.  This argument makes an attractive appeal, but unfortunately it weakens his primary argument about the meaning of "aion."  He weakens his argument because the primary characteristic of God to be praised in the salvation of mankind is not his love, but his grace.  If Christ had not atoned for the sins of corrupt mankind, then the justice of God could have damned the entirety of mankind without lessening God's character trait of love in the least.  The perfect love of God within the Trinity would continue on eternally without flaw.  We may find it hard to swallow, even as Christians, but we are utterly corrupt in sin and deserve damnation.  God would be just to damn us without being unloving at all, that is if Christ had not died.  In fact Satan and his demonic followers are people too, yet they will be sentenced to the Lake of Fire for The Ages of The Ages.  However, there is a new justice in town.  Christ has freely, without condition, chosen to love all mankind.  Christ has atoned for the sins of all mankind; therefore, his grace now demands the salvation of those atoned.  One whose sins are paid for absolutely cannot be eternally damned.  Never!  If the wrath of God is appeased, who then remains to condemn?  Friend, who can possibly condemn?  No one!  That is the rock Christians stand on -- the loving grace of God.  However, the unbelieving elect do not yet stand on or live by God's love.  They are un-believing!  But one day, sooner or later, God will touch his finger of grace to their hearts as well.  Why wait?  Why suffer?  Why burn in Hades to the very brink of the Lake of Fire before believing that the grace of God has already made it impossible for you to be damned or ever be separated from the love of God your Heavenly Father?  Believe!

6. Hanson also cites proofs that universal salvation was commonly accepted in the early centuries of the church and that it was not until A.D. 544 that this understanding was condemned and anathematized as heretical.  This would be a worthy study to verify.  Obviously I already believe that this was the Apostolic view.

Finally, I had suggested that understanding the Holy Spirit's use of "eternal" as "limited duration" required the faith of Abraham to "call things that are not, as though they were."  However, I was wrong about this and again apologize for my haste.  I have corrected this in the book.  Absolutely, no irrational or miraculous "leap of faith" is required at all because the Greek word "aion" is often mistranslated as "eternal" and "forever" when it should be translated as "age", "eon", or "complete."  Hanson could have even further supported his conclusion by pointing out that the etymology of our modern word "eon" points directly back to "aion."  So unbelieving humans will most certainly spend an eon in Hades, but an eon is not forever and has a beginning... and an end.  Hades will be emptied of all souls and then Hades itself will be tossed into the Lake of Fire, emptied of all souls, never needed again for all eternity.

A shorter explanation of the meaning of "aion" can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeon.  However, it should be noted that though Hanson's work is definitive for me, it is not definitive for everyone.  For example at http://carm.org/what-do-greek-dictionaries-say-about-aionion Matt Slick argues that Christian Universalists are completely wrong to suggest that the word "aion" can refer to anything less than eternal.  However, on his one page argument, Denotation #3 reads as follows, "describes duration, either undefined but not endless."

Have those who persist in rejecting my thesis truly been to the foot of the cross?  Have they seen their religious hypocrisy terribly exposed and completed cleansed by the blood of Christ?  Have you received grace?

Forever Is Not Forever? You Still Gotta Be Kidding Me!

SOME>> Forever Is Not Forever?  You Still Gotta Be Kidding Me!

ME>> This is an excellent point already briefly discussed in my previous article, Forever Is Not Forever?  You Gotta Be Kidding Me!  The main point is that I do boldly say with others that the Greek word "aion" and its adjective "aionios" are often misunderstood and mistranslated in many translations of the Christian Scriptures.  This Greek noun and adjective have a much richer meaning than simple infinite duration. Now if you are not a student of the Greek language you may not know how to determine the truth of the matter.

Two quick steps into the discussion are first: the English word "eon" directly descends etymologically from the Greek word "aion."  This much is plain to see and perhaps enough to motivate your further study.  Friend, you and I both already know that "eon" does not mean "eternal" but is a long period of time with a beginning... and an end!  This fact alone ought to give every Christian pause to reconsider the usage of "aion" within the New Testament.  Second: the subject of salvation by grace received through faith alone ought to embolden every believer to thoroughly examine the Scriptures to understand the extent of God's grace even for the unbelieving.  If God has saved anyone by grace, why would we be offended that he would save even the unbelieving by that same grace, even after an eon in Hades?

Hoping for better things however, to help your further study I have used the http://www.blueletterbible.org to find every usage of the Greek words "aion," "aionios," and "aidios" in the New Testament. 

aion:  Strong's G165 occurs 128 times in 102 verses in the Greek concordance.
aionios: Strong's G166 occurs 71 times in 69 verses in the Greek concordance.
aïdios: Strong's G126 occurs 2 times in 2 verses in the Greek concordance.

The large chart attached at DGJC.ORG/OPTIMISM/AION lists the references to these Greek words in the World English Bible and the Young's Literal Translation along with my notes. This spread sheet could be a useful starting point for your own study.

Other resources to study also include:

A. E. Knoch proposes in his book All In All that the Holy Spirit uses the words "aion" and "aionios" in very distinct and precise ways to refer to five distinct eons between eternity past and eternity future.  Knoch insists that "aion" never means eternal.  Knoch preferred the term "eon" in the Concordant Bible Translation rather than "age" which is used in Young's Literal Translation because "eon" has the useful adjective "eonian" while Young uses the cumbersome "age-during."  Knoch also argues that his five proposed "eons" correspond to five "worlds," two of which are the pre-flood and the post-flood world.  Knoch also says that these "worlds" are different than the administrations within a particular "eon," such as the Old and New Covenant administrations of grace within the present "eon."  Knoch offers a detailed chart of his theory on page 160 of All In All.  He also makes the assertion that "aion" does not even have to mean "eternal" in verses like Romans 1:25.  This Scripture says God is blessed unto the "ages," meaning the "eonian times."  Knoch's understanding is actually very reasonable because saying that God is blessed through all the "eons" does not contradict that God is also blessed eternally beyond the "eons."  Knoch makes some very acute observations worthy of every theologian's consideration.  His proposed five eons are charted below in parallel with the Tabernacle.

Eternity Future - Post-Eonian
Tabernacle Time
Holies of Holies
Inner two Holies
The Holy of Holies Lake of Fire Fifth Eon Eons of Eons
Last two Eons
The Holy Millennial Kingdom Fourth Eon
 The Court Present Third Eon, Flood to Return 
 The Camp Second Eon - Gen 1:2 to Flood 
 Outside the Camp First Eon - Creation to Gen 1:2 
Eternity Past - Pre-Eonian


Dr. Heleen Keizer concludes, at slight variance from Knoch, in her work Life, Time, Entirety - A Study of Aion in Greek Literature and Philosophy, the Septuagint and Philo that "aion" has been used to mean "eternal," but even richer than "age" or "eon" the original meaning is "life," "complete," or "entire."  Wow!  Reread John 3:16 with this understanding!

A thorough study of Scripture will help us understand the meaning of these words and the Holy Spirit's usage in context.  The primary denotations and synonyms possible from the above resources and the Greek lexicon are summarized as:

  • eon, eonian: an age, general or particular, with a beginning and end, not eternal.
  • entire, whole, life, complete, unbroken: a purposeful whole unbroken life.
  • eternal: lasting forever in the past and/or the future.
  • world: the world and human condition during a particular age or circumstance.

Thank you for giving this your very careful attention.  Again the large chart attached at DGJC.ORG/OPTIMISM/AION lists the references to these Greek words in the World English Bible and the Young's Literal Translation. This spread sheet could be a useful starting point for your own study.

Knoch's five eon chart above suggests that the last two eons are a Millennial Kingdom and the Lake of Fire Judgment.  Knoch points to 1 Corinthians 15:23-28 and 15:50-55 as forecasting the end of the Lake of Fire.  However, as much as I agree with Knoch's critical observations about the eons of redemptive history, his eonian model may be shifted one notch to far into the future.  I understand 1 Corinthians 15 to point instead to the end of death and Hades judgment for mankind at the Great White Throne Judgment with Satan and his demons cast into the Lake of Fire at the commencement of either the last eon or eternity.  Knoch's model also includes a rigid mapping of five eons to five elements of the Tabernacle.  That is certainly possible, but my proposed model below is simpler to emphasize the main point: God is demonstrating his grace through various eons within history between eternity past and future.  Consider my proposed revision to Knoch's eonian chart below.

Eternity Future ( Post-Eonian )

Redemption Manifest for Mankind

Fallen Angels Damned for the Last Eon or for all Eternity
TabernacleTime
Holy of HoliesChurch Eon
Outside the HoliesEons before Christ
Eternity Past ( Pre-Eonian )


In this simplified model of understanding, the cross of Christ stands as the fulcrum point between the "ages" before Christ and the "ages" after Christ.  Hebrews 9:26 points to this understanding.

Finally, two critical verses to examine are Revelation 14:11 and 20:10.  The common English translation of both of these verses speak about torment "forever and ever."  Reference both these verses at DGJC.ORG/OPTIMISM/AION and your own Bible.  You will see that Revelation 14:11 is talking about wicked men, while Revelation 20:10 is talking about wicked angels.

So after all this work is my primary thesis at variance with Scripture? Do wicked men then share the same destiny as wicked angels?  Let's take a closer look at these two verses.

ComparisonRevelation 14:11Revelation 20:10
World English BibleThe smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Young's Literal Translationand the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.
Greekκαὶ καπνὸς τοῦ βασανισμοῦ αὐτῶν εἰς αἰῶνας αἰώνων ἀναβαίνει καὶ οὐκ ἔχουσιν ἀνάπαυσιν ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτός οἱ προσκυνοῦντες τὸ θηρίον καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα αὐτοῦ καὶ εἴ τις λαμβάνει τὸ χάραγμα τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦκαὶ διάβολος πλανῶν αὐτοὺς ἐβλήθη εἰς τὴν λίμνην τοῦ πυρὸς καὶ θείου ὅπου καὶ τὸ θηρίον καὶ ψευδοπροφήτης καὶ βασανισθήσονται ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων
Subject of TormentWicked men branded with the mark of the Beast.Wicked fallen angels; Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet.
Length of Tormentεἰς αἰῶνας αἰώνωνεἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων
εἰςinto, unto, to, towards, for, among
τοὺςthe
αἰῶναςages, eons
τῶνof the
αἰώνωνof ages, eonian
Literal translationfor ages of ages
for the ages of the ages


So are the phrases above identical?  The WEB Bible and most English Bibles translate the phrases identically.  However, I show above that they are not identical in wording in the underlying Greek.  But are they identical in meaning?  No, they are not identical in meaning either!  The torment promised for wicked men is for a long time, in fact "for ages of ages." This likely points to torment in Hades during the pre-Church Age and the Church Age.  However, the torment promised to Satan and his angels is for the definite specific time period of the Lake of Fire, "for the ages of the ages!"  Notice the absence of the definite article "the" in Revelation 14:11 and the presence of the definite article "the" in Revelation 20:10.  Consider all the possible interpretations of these observations:

  • Wicked men share the same eternal torment as wicked angels.  Though I have refuted this understanding to my own satisfaction due to the underlying differences in the Greek between Revelation 14:11 and 20:10.

  • Wicked men share the same eonian torment as wicked angels.  Some Christian Universalists propose that human beings will be punished in the Lake of Fire along with Satan and the demons, and then extracted some time beyond the pages of Scripture not explicitly mentioned.

  • Wicked men are punished "for ages of ages", through the church age, even to the brink of the Lake of Fire, while Satan and his angels are punished "for the ages of the ages", the Lake of Fire which is prepared for them, Matthew 25:41.  The Lake of Fire is not prepared for human beings.

I have also proposed a more complete chart of these events in my article, Eschatology is the Study of Future Good News!  Rejoice with me that wicked mankind will be punished temporally "for ages of ages" both now and in Hades up to the Great White Throne Judgment.  Rejoice also that Satan and his demons, the enemy of God and mankind, will be damned to the Lake of Fire "for the ages of the ages" after the Great White Throne Judgment.  Finally rejoice that Christ will rule forever.

Thank you for pursuing your own independent study of these things.  The implications are incredible and so faithful handling of God's word is critical.

God is Not a Retributivist!

SEVERAL UNIVERSALISTS>> God is not a retributivist! You seem to have hope that God will be ALL in ALL and finally save ALL humanity, yet you portray God as an angry retributivist against sin and unrepentant sinners.  This is a wrong view of God.

ME>> A number of authors listed in my article Book Reviews have argued that traditional theology is wrong because God is characterized as a retributivist.  Their concern is that a God of love would not exact justice by getting even.  That is a good point to note.  In fact, Jesus himself made the Old Covenant obsolete with his New Covenant.  So the "eye for an eye" theology never was the final will of God.  However, care is needed in our understandings and explanations because many Christian Universalists have seriously stepped out of bounds.  They say that the Old Testament depictions of God's wrath are not Holy Spirit inspired, but instead fallible human interpretation of world events based on a wrong view of God.

So then how should we understand God?  Is he a retributivist?

The dictionary explains:

A retributivist advocates the punishment of criminals in retribution for the harm they have inflicted.  Retributivists desire requital according to merits or deserts, especially for evil.  In the realm of religion, retributivist theology teaches the distribution of rewards and punishments in a future life.

So what does the word of God say?

First, we remember that the Holy Spirit teaches us in the Old Testament that Cain was placed under a curse for murdering his brother, yet God also was merciful to him, Genesis 4.  We also remember that God was grieved over the sinfulness of mankind and drowned the entire world except for eight people, yet God did not stop loving both the living and the dead, Genesis 6 and 1 Peter 3:19-4:6.  We also consider that God took the life of David's child to Bathsheba because of his adultery and murder of Uriah.  God then punished David even further saying the sword would never leave his household, yet David continued to be a man after God's our heart, 2 Samuel 11-12.  God punished sinners severely under the Old Covenant.

Second, we might think that the removal of the "eye for an eye" penal system has taken away all punishment under the New Covenant.  However, nothing could be further from the truth.  In fact the demands for obedience and honor to the crucified and risen Lord are now even greater!  Jesus himself warned the unbelieving Jews that Jerusalem would be leveled to the ground for their rejection of him as the Messiah, as it then was in 70 A.D., Matthew 24.  Ananias and Sapphira learned the hard way that lying to the Holy Spirit in front of the body of Christ will cost you your life, Acts 5.  King Herod did not give glory to God, but instead glorified himself and was struck dead instantly, Acts 12.  So we see that God remains the same righteous judge presently under the New Covenant as he was under the Old Covenant.  2 Peter Chapter 2 says that God will pay back harm to those that have done harm.  2 Peter Chapter 3 continues that the God who judged the ancient world with flood waters will judge the present world with fire.

Thankfully water and fire are both used to cleanse and to purify.  God's ultimate goal is not to destroy sinful humanity with death by drowning and burning.  We know this because 2 Corinthians 5:21 (WEB) says, "For him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."  God himself took the ultimate penalty for ALL mankind's sin.  There will be NO eternal judgment and penalty for those for whom Christ died, that is ALL mankind.

Yet, God also understands the depth of our depravity and his fiery love does not mince words or dance around our wickedness with kid gloves.  God is perfectly willing to serve just desserts to teach us or even simply to protect his other children.

Consider the words of Isaiah and David,

"Tell those who have a fearful heart, 'Be strong. Don't be afraid. Behold, your God will come with vengeance, God's retribution. He will come and save you.' "

Isaiah 35:4 (WEB)

"David says, 'Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, a stumbling block, and a retribution to them.' "

Romans 11:9 (WEB)


Consider also the words of Malachi 3:1-6,

1) "Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me; and the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, behold, he comes!" says Yahweh of Armies. 2) "But who can endure the day of his coming? And who will stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner's fire, and like launderer's soap; 3) and he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi, and refine them as gold and silver; and they shall offer to Yahweh offerings in righteousness. 4) Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasant to Yahweh, as in the days of old, and as in ancient years. 5) I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against the perjurers, and against those who oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and who deprive the foreigner of justice, and don't fear me," says Yahweh of Armies. 6) "For I, Yahweh, don't change; therefore you, sons of Jacob, are not consumed.


God is the loving Father of us ALL.  And though he may pay retribution according to his wisdom, thankfully his fiery love passionately seeks our purification always and will never condemn us eternally.

Have Other Christians Made this Observation?

Another thoughtful reader suggested...

READER>> I know that you want your book, Optimism Out of Control, to stand on Scripture alone, but I think that it would be helpful to include citations from other Christians over the past 2,000 years who have thought what you are thinking.  It would remove this objection to your book:  "If you're right, then has this gone unnoticed for 2,000 years until Jeff Martin came along?"

ME>> Excellent suggestion.  Thanks.  I had already pointed my reader to other sources in my articles Other-theologians and Book Reviews.  There are many who have held to various forms of Christian and non-Christian Universalism.  Though it is not the conventional understanding, there are noteworthy groups and individuals who have held to Evangelical Universalism, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Universalism.

This article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_reconciliation also adds further to the discussion with this quote, "George Whitfield in a letter to John Wesley says that Peter Boehler, a bishop in the Moravian Church, had privately confessed in a letter that 'all the damned souls would hereafter be brought out of hell.' "  The doctrine that people will be extracted out of Hell as explained in Revelation 20:13 is not well known, but certainly I am not the first to observe it.  John Wesley Hanson's classic 1875 work titled, The Greek Word Aion-Aionios translated Everlasting-Eternal in the Holy Bible Shown to Denote Limited Duration also lists other notable Christian Universalists throughout history.  Modern evangelical movements that identify with this understanding typically do not prefer the label Universalist in order to distance themselves from the Unitarian Universalist movement.  Instead they may prefer the label Restorationist and use rally cries such as The Victorious Gospel and Greater Grace.  Google those words for more information.  Here is also a longer list of evangelical Universalists, though I have not researched the list personally: http://evangelicaluniversalist.com.

One might ask why this understanding is not conventional if it is really true.  Religion is always more popular than grace.  Perhaps professing Christians feel that the available orthodoxies are close enough to the mark that asking further questions about grace is now taboo.  Also Protestantism is so anti-Catholic that the very suggestion that people are extracted out of Hell immediately evokes indignant cries about "working one's way out of purgatory."  Sadly because Catholics and the majority of Protestants think they have been saved by their free will choice of faith, they immediately think that I am saying that those extracted from Hell have a "second chance" to exercise their free will to get back into God's grace.  Hardly.  How could someone who understands grace even make these comments?  If anyone is extracted from punishment in Hell, it is purely by the grace of God alone, the only way that anyone is ever saved in the first place.

So in answer to your question, yes there are others who have shared similar views throughout church history and today.  However, since my work is original and not simply echoing the writings of another, you may not be able to find someone who has added up all the facts exactly as I have.  In fact, because I hold a minority view, my interpretation may land in a miscellaneous bucket along with some very unbiblical views.

Lastly since the gospel does speak foolishness to the unbelieving, it may be difficult to easily quantify this view in written theology.  In fact historians often debate and struggle to precisely state the beliefs of Christians past.  This may be one of the reasons.  Like Christ himself, they proclaimed that he is the savior of all mankind, yet also like Christ they warned the unbelieving that they are not his sheep.  Historians may struggle to efficiently label these faithful ministers of the gospel.  For myself,  though I am confident that Jesus is the savior of all mankind, I still assert to those who reject the grace of Christ in favor of their free will, their "religion," their "limited atonement," and their "tainted faith" that they will spend the duration in Hades.  Furthermore, IF they are not also saved by the gracious choice of Christ and listed in the Lamb's Book of Life, then they will also be eternally damned.  There is no other salvation than the electing grace of Christ.  So neither do I fit neatly into a Universalist camp that neglects the gospel.

So why not believe the good news?  Christ HAS paid for your sin!

Hebrews 2:16 Does Not Say Fallen Angels Are Damned

Another reader says...

READER>> Hebrews 2:16 Does Not Say Fallen Angels Are Damned

ME>> Let's look at the passage more closely.

The KJV translates Hebrews 2:16, "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham."

The KJV translation paraphrases this verse to emphasize the argument that Jesus became a man and not an angel and so Jesus is empathetic to the needs of mankind.

The NASB translates Hebrews 2:16, "For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham."

The NASB, however, interprets the verse to mean that because Jesus became a man he is therefore the helper / redeemer of mankind and not of angels.  Check out the verse for yourself at the http://www.blueletterbible.org for further study.

Consider the whole argument flow of Hebrews 2 (WEB) below,

1) Therefore we ought to pay greater attention to the things that were heard, lest perhaps we drift away. 2) For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, 3) how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation—which at the first having been spoken through the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard, 4) God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders, by various works of power and by gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to his own will?


Point 1: Pay attention because Jesus is greater than angels.

5) For he didn’t subject the world to come, of which we speak, to angels. 6) But one has somewhere testified, saying, 'What is man, that you think of him? Or the son of man, that you care for him? 7) You made him a little lower than the angels. You crowned him with glory and honor.  8) You have put all things in subjection under his feet.'

For in that he subjected all things to him, he left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we don’t see all things subjected to him, yet. 9) But we see him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for everyone.


Point 2: The world to come is also subject to mankind, not to angels, with Jesus leading the charge in dominion by tasting death for us.

10) For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many children to glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11) For both he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brothers, 12) saying,

'I will declare your name to my brothers. Among the congregation I will sing your praise.' 13) Again, 'I will put my trust in him.' Again, 'Behold, here I am with the children whom God has given me.'


Point 3: Jesus is not ashamed to call us his brothers and sisters.

14) Since then the children have shared in flesh and blood, he also himself in the same way partook of the same, that through death he might bring to nothing him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15) and might deliver all of them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16) For most certainly, he doesn’t give help to angels, but he gives help to the offspring of Abraham. 17) Therefore he was obligated in all things to be made like his brothers, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people. 18) For in that he himself has suffered being tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.


Point 4: Jesus broke the power of Satan because he is not the helper of sinful angels, but the helper of sinful mankind. 

The literal translation of Hebrews 2:16 (WEB) from the Greek is:

English Strongs Greek
For g1063 gar
most certainly g1222 depou
He doesn't g3756 ou
give help g1949 epilambanomai
to angels g32 aggelos
but g235 alla
He gives help g1949 epilambanomai
to the offspring g4690 sperma
of Abraham g11 Abraam


In conclusion, it would seem that the KJV is guilty of allowing a bias of understanding to wrongly influence the translation.  Hebrews 2:16 is saying that Jesus is not the helper of Satan and his angels.  Does the verse go as far to say that the Devil and his angels are outside of the redemption purchased at the cross?  Some have interpreted the "apokatastasis" of Acts 3:21 and the "all things" of Colossians 1:20 to include fallen angels as well.  The happy news is that the redemption of ALL mankind is explicitly taught in Scripture.  As for Satan, the arch enemy of Christ, it is also explicitly taught that Christ is not his helper and his destiny is the Lake of Fire.  Is there an end to his condemnation to the Lake of Fire?  The Scriptures are silent on that question.

How Can You Say Revelation 21:8 Does Not Apply to Humans?

Another questioned...

READER>> How can you say Revelation 21:8 does not apply to humans?   If you say that only fallen angels are sentenced to the Lake of Fire, since when were demons cowardly, unbelieving, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, magicians, idolaters, and liars?  This is clearly speaking about human unbelievers.

ME>> This is a most excellent question.

Here is Revelation 21:8 (WEB) again,

But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.


The demonstration of Grace is God's purpose in creation and redemptive history and so grace should always be the interpretive lens of Scripture.  The believing elect, having received grace and being led by the Holy Spirit, are well equipped to interpret the Scripture.  The Holy Spirit even says boldly that, "you don’t need for anyone to teach you," for we have an anointing from Him, I John 2:27 (WEB).

To that end I make an observation, the passage says that "all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur."  I boldly assert through the interpretive lens of grace that in this case "all" does not mean "all" in this context.  The immediate context and the whole context of Scripture is essential for rightly dividing the word of truth.  In my key exegesis of Romans 11:32, I explained that "all" does mean all because all mankind are sinners.  Reread my article, Romans 11:32-36 for my complete argument.  However, in the case of Revelation 20:8 "all" cannot mean all liars, because everyone is a liar according to Romans 3:4.  If all liars are damned to the Lake of Fire then you and I are damned as well.  Likewise even Christians are at times cowardly, unbelieving, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, magicians, and idolaters.  Yet these sins are forgiven for all mankind through the death of Christ.  No doubt even your theology agrees with my logic so far.  So in light of all of Scripture, in this case "all" must mean all those outside of Christ, that is the non-elect.  Only the non-elect sinners are consigned to the Lake of Fire.  However, those predestined for grace certainly are saved from the Lake of Fire even though we are liars and sinners of various types.  Do you follow this logic?

So the damned are those whose sins are not paid for, those who owe an obligation to the judge at the Great White Throne Judgment, but have nothing to pay the obligation.  However, the sins of all mankind are paid for, according to I John 2:1-2.  Thus the only beings remaining with a sin debt are the fallen angels.  Coincidentally only fallen angels are explicitly named as cast into the Lake of Fire, that is Satan, The Beast, and The False Prophet.  Furthermore, the Scriptures explicitly state that the Lake of Fire is "prepared for... the Devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41 WEB).

But can Revelation 21:8 really only apply to angels?  Yes, I've already proved that God's chosen people are also guilty of all these sins, but exempt from damnation due to the fact that our sins are paid!  That is the good news!!  Fallen angels, however, are vile, but their vileness is not atoned.  Jesus became a man and is the vicarious substitute for mankind, but not the angel kind.  Consider that Satan is called a murderer and the Father of Lies, John 8:44. Ezekiel 28 also highlights Satan's idolatry.  He worshiped his own beauty and not the beauty of Christ.  Yet can we say that angels are cowardly, sexually immoral, and magicians?  This seems odd to give these labels to the fallen angels.  Yet Satan and his demons are guilty of these crimes even if only because they tempt and applaud mankind's stumbling in these areas.  Consider also that some believe that embodied fallen angels are specifically guilty of sexual immorality in Genesis 6:1-4 and were punished as explained in 2 Peter 2:4.  Though I am uncertain of these details, I am certain that fallen angels will be condemned at the Great White Throne Judgment as explained in Daniel 12:1-4, Matthew 25:31-46, and Revelation 20:11-15.  In the end, Satan and his demonic following are the only people outside of Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment as they are sentenced the Lake of Fire for The Ages of The Ages.  Finally, Isaiah believed that one day all mankind would bow down in worship before the Lord, Isaiah 66:22-24.

Friend, is your question really a question of Biblical exegesis?  Or instead is your question really about how grace is applied to the forgiveness of your own sins for your own salvation?  Are you convinced that your choice of faith has signed the deal for your salvation?  Why not trade in your "personal salvation" to join the salvation of ALL God's people?  Why not trust that Christ signed the deal for your salvation with his blood at Calvary, as well as the salvation of ALL mankind.

How Could Anyone Not Believe This Awesome News?

READERS>> How could anyone not believe the awesome news that Jesus is the savior of ALL mankind?

ME>> A good question.  Opponents voice reasons that they do not believe Jesus is the savior of all mankind.  However, if you agree with the Biblical, rational, and historical proofs in the Optimism Out of Control book you may wonder how anyone could possibly not believe!  The good news is so clear!  Following are a few reasons to remind us to be merciful to those who doubt.

  • Traditional Christian understanding, that most of humanity is eternally damned, has a majority following.  It can be very difficult to break from majority opinion.
  • Even adults are impacted by peer pressure.  Concluding at variance with one's religious community may result in difficult social repercussions and even rejection.
  • Suggesting that the Greek word "aion" is better translated as "age", "entire", "life", "whole", or "unbroken" sounds suspect.  Seekers may feel unqualified for Greek studies. 
  • Most think that after death you go to Heaven or Hell.  However, very few know that Hades is temporal, while the Lake of Fire is the final judgment for fallen angels.
  • Biblical Christian Universalist fellowship can be very difficult if not impossible to find.  Furthermore, few want to join a movement without a local presence.
  • True Christian faith will never stand as a peer with the religions of the world.  True Christian faith stands alone as radical stance by definition and so has a high cost.
  • Salvation granted through the free will choice of Jesus Christ appeals strongly to the natural man.  However, super-natural new birth is required to see otherwise.

These are just a few reasons why many find it difficult to believe that Jesus Christ is your savior, my savior, and the savior of all mankind.

Keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life. And have mercy on some, who are doubting; save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

Jude 21-23 (NASB)

I Do Not Agree

One thoughtful reader writes...

READER>> In summary, thanks for sending your article and reading my response (below). I hope it is helpful and that you can see why I do not agree with your conclusions, based on the Scriptures.

ME>> You are welcome.  Fair enough.

READER>> I don't see Scripture indicating that I need to worry "whether I am part of the elect or not."  Rather, I just need to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation (Acts 16:31, Rom. 10:9-10, etc).  Afterward, out of gratitude for having been saved, I ought to live in line with my new identity (Eph. 4, 5, 2Pet.1:3-11, etc).  The question of "whether I am elect or not" will take care of itself.  By definition, if I believe in Jesus Christ for salvation and receive His free gift of salvation, I am part of the elect.  If I reject Jesus Christ, or believe for a short time and then fall away (1 John 2:19), by definition I was never part of the elect.  Regarding "assurance" and "how one may know that one truly believes," 1 John and James deal with that point.  Regarding whether God will in fact save those who believe in Jesus, there's no need to worry about that either.... God always keeps His promises, as shown by all of Scripture.  But do you know of anywhere in Scripture where people are instructed to try to figure out if they're part of the elect or not?  To my knowledge, and as you wrote, Scripture teaches BOTH that God sovereignly chooses people to be part of His elect, and that we humans are morally responsible for our actions (and must believe in Christ to be saved).  These two truths are both taught (sometimes in the same verse! 2 Tim. 2:19).

ME>> 2 Peter 1:9-11 commands us to make our election sure.  This is a critical issue in order to insure that those professing Christ actually have saving faith. Many people profess faith in Christ yet revolt against his words, "you did not choose me, but I chose you."  Many begin to follow Jesus, but turn away when they hear more detail about the truth.  Or since faith, repentance, and conversion are too painful they instead convert Jesus into a palatable American.  It is important to understand that when Jesus says trust me, he is not saying "Take the action to trust me, perform the work of trusting me, and then I will add your name to the Book of Life."  Rather he is saying to his elect, "Trust me, I have written your name in my book from before the foundation of the world."  These are two radically different understandings of faith.  One is salvation by grace, the other by works.  More specifically you say that one must believe in Christ to be saved.  I agree that faith is required for salvation from sin and salvation from Hades.  However, since faith cannot add our name to the Lamb's Book of Life then actually not even "faith" cannot save someone from the Lake of Fire.  Only the electing grace of God can pen our name in the Lamb's Book of Life, the final criterion for salvation from the Lake of Fire, Revelation 20:15.  The importance of faith is that trust in Christ enables us to see our name in the Lamb's Book of Life, to see that our names are already there because God has always loved us!  This is the happy news!!

READER>> On the page Gospel Foolishness, you wrote: "The Arminian boasts in his 'free will' choice of God while the Calvinist boasts that he alone is chosen."  I would certainly not boast that "I alone am chosen," and I don't know of any Calvinist who would do so.  Certainly our boast should be in Jesus Christ.   If you ask me whether God has chosen a particular set of people for salvation, I would say 'Yes,' the scripture informs me that He has.  And if you ask me whether I am part of that subset, I would say 'Yes, that seems to be the case,' because (to the best of my knowledge) I believe in Jesus Christ and I see the evidences mentioned in 1 John allowing me to "know" that I have eternal life.  But is there any self-based pride in this?  Absolutely not.  Rather (Romans 9:11/context, 11:6, Ephesians 1) my election is all based on God's unconditional, sovereign, loving, eternal, choice, not based on any goodness inside me.  So there is nothing for me to boast about regarding myself.  Hence I disagree with your phrase mentioned above, as a straw-man argument.

ME>> Thank you for this correction.  You are right that I should not use the same word "boast" when addressing the error of the Arminian and the Calvinist.  They are both in error, but errors of a different nature.  It is the Arminians who "boasts" because their salvation is based on their own decision, their own work.  But Grace teaches us that this is boastful.  However, the Calvinist error is to claim that they are part of an imaginary chosen subset of humanity.  This error is more properly labeled "blindness," just as Jesus labeled the Pharisees, "blind guides."  I have corrected that language in my article Gospel Foolishness. Above you also say it "seems to be the case" that you are part of that chosen subset.  This does not sound very certain.  Why the reservation? Why not great boldness?  Your choice of words proves a critical point made previously in my book: that the Calvinist cannot be 100% certain that they are part of the chosen subset of saved humanity.  Please read my article, Certain Knowledge again.  I also write more on this subject below.

READER>>As I understand what you are saying, you believe that after death, those who believe in Jesus will go to heaven while those who disbelieve will go to "hell"/"hades", as a place of "temporary punishment." Then at the day of final judgment, you believe that God will extend a pardon (because of Christ's sacrificial death) to every individual human who has ever lived (i.e. every human's name will be listed in the Book of Life; there will be no one whose name is not in the Book of Life), after which all the humans will go into permanent heaven and live forever with God. You base this on several passages, especially Romans 11:32 ("For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all") and Hosea 2:23 ("I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'"). All of the passages which are traditionally interpreted as teaching that some humans will end up in everlasting punishment you reinterpret in the following 2 ways: either (1) they are only talking about 'temporary hell', (2) they only apply to demons, not humans. Some of this I agreed with, and some I disagreed with, on Scriptural grounds.

ME>> Yes I do believe Romans 11:32 is the grand conclusion of Christian salvation and yes I believe all mankind will be finally saved from the Lake of Fire, though most are not saved from sin, unbelief, and punishment in Hades.  However, please note that there is one critical gospel caveat: The foolishness of the gospel warns the unbelieving that those who reject this good news and the grace of Christ that they are not "his sheep" and they will spend the duration in Hades. This sentence still stands for unbelieving mankind whether Jew or gentile.

READER>> ...I disagree with your fundamental premise in the book, that all humans will end up being saved and entering into eternal life. I disagree not for emotional or tradition-based reasons, but for Scriptural reasons, as follows. First, I think that your "four square salvation evaluator" is too simplistic. "Save" (greek sozo) does not always mean save from sin... (1 Tim 2:15) "All" (greek pantas) does not always mean "all (individual people in the world)"... sometimes it means "all (people in a particular group which is being discussed in a context)" or "all (types of people...) or both (types of people)" (Mark 1:5, 4:31, John 3:26, 4:29, 8:2, 12:32, Acts 2:45, 22:15, 26:4, Romans 3:9, 16:26, 1 Cor 10:33, Gal 2:14, Col 3:11, etc) "Have mercy" does not look exactly the same for all people... God's mercy on some involves giving food/water/rain/family/etc, but God's mercy upon others involves far more, to the point of opening our eyes to believe in Him for eternal life. (Acts 14:17) Being the "savior of all men" does not necessarily mean that they are always "saved" from Hell or from the lake of fire, or saved to the same destiny, or in the same way, or to the same extent (1 Tim 4:10) It seems that when you read in Romans 11 "..that He may have mercy upon all", you infer that this means that God will eventually redeem all humans and bring them into heaven... but this conclusion is not required by this verse in its context, and does not fit other passages of Scripture.  I agree with Galli's point that "all" here in context is referring to "both Jews and Gentiles."  (For example, verses 25-31 are comparing these two groups).

ME>> I am sorry that you think my Four Square Salvation Evaluator is too simplistic.  In fact I thought the simplicity of this model actually helped the reader to understand the simple errors and difficulties evident in the historic Arminian and Calvinistic debate.  Regarding the question of "saved from what?", I address the various dangers we need to be saved from in my articles, 2 Corinthians 5:14-21 and Saved 5x.  However, the focus of the salvation question in my Four Square Salvation Evaluator is only the question of eternal salvation, that is salvation from the Lake of Fire.  Since you were confused about that I added further clarification in my article, Soteriologies. Likewise, I also address the different possible meanings of the word "all," but as you say we come to a different conclusion. 

READER>> You wrote in [your article]  Romans 11:32-36 "We should be consistent because the context for both verses regarding Paul's points about Jew and Gentile being alike under sin are the same. However, Romans 3:23 is easily understood to mean every individual person, just as Romans 11:32 should be understood to mean every individual person, whether Jew or Gentile." "easily understood to mean"? On the contrary, the context of Romans 3 is more in favor of a meaning of "both Jews and Gentiles" than "each individual". I agree with you that each individual has sinned, but that is not the primary contextual point of Rom 3:23. Therefore, Rom 3:23 cannot be used to infer that Romans 11:32 is talking about every individual person.

ME>> I am surprised that you say this.  The larger context of Romans 3:23 begins by quoting Psalm 14:3 saying, “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God."  The meaning of the Psalm and Romans 3:9-23 is commonly understood by all Christians to say that each individual human being is guilty of sin, not merely all types of people.  I am merely pointing out that the larger context of Romans allows me to conclude that Romans 11:32 can also be interpreted to mean every individual human being without doing any violence to the rules of interpretation.  However, the definitive proof is the means Jesus used to make payment for mankind's sin.  He became a man and is identified as the new federal head of all humanity in Romans Chapter 5.  He does not represent part of humanity, but the entirety of humanity.  By the very nature of how he paid for sin, the sin payment must apply to all mankind -- that is every individual human being that ever lived or will live.  He did not pay for the sins of some with cash or a mere token, but he became a man and thus the vicarious substitute for all!  One cannot simply apply his death to part of mankind because he became the substitute for all mankind.  To do so would be to somehow divide Jesus' body into a part that died for some, and a part that did not die for others.  How could we do that when instead his body was broken for all his people?

READER>> A related verse is I John 2:1-2, "the whole world" in context being "not only Jews... also people from every tribe and nation... but not necessarily EVERY person from every tribe and nation". For example, John 12:19, etc.

ME>>  That is curious.  I understand John to be saying that Christ is the atoning sacrifice for not only our sins, meaning not only believers, but that Christ is also the atoning sacrifice for unbelievers as well.  The "us" and "them" under the New Covenant is no longer Jew and gentile, but instead believer and unbeliever.

READER>> (Also, God's "binding us to sin" does not mean that He "caused" us to sin... rather that He "ordained"/"allowed" such... There are multiple levels of causality, not only a single level. (Genesis 50:20, etc). I'd highly recommend reading Bruce Ware's two books on this:  "God's Lesser Glory" and "God's Greater Glory.")

ME>> I am not sure if your debate is with me or with the Bible on this point.  I also agree that God has not soiled his holy hands with the works of Satan.  It was Satan who tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden, certainly not God.  Yet the Bible clearly says that God himself is finally responsible for both the origin and the purpose of sin as explained in Isaiah 30:28, Romans 8:20, and Romans 11:32.  God is not a tempter, but Satan none-the-less, evil though he is, still serves God's sovereign purposes.  Specifically, God decreed the existence of sin in order to demonstrate his grace.  Though admittedly if you reject this you are on the side of the majority for most are unwilling to swallow this truth.  However, at least take note that I stand with the great theologians Martin Luther, Jonathon Edwards, and many others concerning God's sovereignty over sin.

READER>> On Hosea 2:23, this is a very important verse. It is important to recognize the historical context. God had made an eternal covenant / promise to Abraham and his descendants in Genesis 12 and following. In Deuteronomy 27-30, God told His people that even if they were punished to the point of diaspora (28:63ff, 30:1-6), eventually He would bring them back... because God's covenant with them was permanent. He would never permanently let them go. Then when Israel sinned and was eventually sent into exile, many of the prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.) still foretold (based on the promises in Genesis-Deuteronomy) that God would bring them back. So when Hosea presented his prophecy, this was not a general case... it was not saying that "in general, God always relents and allows evildoers back into his presence, after a temporary of punishment." Instead, it was a very special "not-my-people"... God had temporarily "disowned" them (in the sense of ceasing to bless them physically as a nation) because they had disowned Him... but He had never forgotten about them or about His promise (Hosea 11:8). Paul then quotes this in Romans 9:25-26 to show that the Gentiles were now included as promised... but again, the fact that the Gentiles would be included was LONG foretold... even back to Genesis 3:15, 12:3, etc, and certainly Isaiah 42:4/Matt 12:21. So again, Hosea 2:23 / Romans 9:26 / inclusion-of-the-Gentiles is not a general "principle" (so I think your "Hosea Principle" is incorrect), but a specific prophecy and fulfillment about certain people / groups that God had predestined for salvation. In your book, you take Hosea 2:23 out of context and apply it to the unbelievers, in your hope that God will call them "My people" in the end... but this directly contradicts the other Scriptures (see below) that explain exactly what God will do with those unbelievers: consign them to the lake of fire forever. Thus your application of the "Hosea principle" leads you to contradict the clear teaching of other scriptures, and I respectfully and earnestly appeal to warn you that this is very wrong.

ME>> Romans 4:16 explains that the promise to Abraham does not follow the physical lineage of Abraham, but instead the spiritual lineage of Abraham, to all those who share the faith of Abraham.  Of course we would need further conversation to outline the impact of this promise as it relates to this life, to Hades, and to the Lake of Fire.  Furthermore the gospel makes it clear that the doctrine of predestination guarantees God's faithfulness to both chosen Jews and chosen Gentiles.  Romans 11 also explains a relationship between the belief and unbelief of the Jews and Gentiles that results in a curious dynamic of envy that propels all people to Christian faith.  The conclusion of redemptive history is not further distinction between Jew and Gentile, but in fact the tearing down of the dividing wall.  The Jews were merely the starting point of God's plan to bring salvation to the entire world as explained in Isaiah Chapter 49.  Thus the Gentile world has much to learn about both the character and methods of God through his dealings with Israel. 

Regarding your disagreement with the "Hosea principle" you may have a point to make in that my language could be more precise.  It is certain there is particular Biblical language to explain the special relationship that God had with Israel under the Old Covenant.  There is also particular language to describe the special relationship he has with believers under the New Covenant.  However, I do not want the fact that I am neither a "Dispensational Theologian" nor a "Covenant Theologian" to detract from my main point.  My main point is that God uses strong language that appears to rule out any possibility of salvation for both unbelieving Jews and unbelieving Gentiles.  Then when evidence of repentance is found, God warmly calls both believing Jews and Gentiles his children.  This is seen in the language of Hosea toward the Jews when God calls them, "not my people," then calls these same people, "my people" after they repent.  This is also seen in the language of Jesus toward the Syrian Phoenicia Greek woman in Mark 7:24-30.  Jesus pitched a hard fast ball saying that his help was unavailable to her.  He even joined the hypocritical Jews in referring to her as a gentile "dog."  It is hard for me to believe that Jesus even said that!  Perhaps he only said it ironically as a rebuke to the Pharisees.  Regardless, she understood him to call her a gentile "dog" and his words caused the woman to humble herself even further.  As a result of her acknowledgement that she did not deserve his help, Jesus then poured out his grace healing her daughter.  The point is that the "Hosea principle" is most certainly a "modus operandi" that Jesus employs with both the Jews and Gentiles to test our hearts and bring our hard hearts to repentance when needed.  Romans 11:29 certainly guarantees God's faithfulness even to the unbelieving Jews mentioned in Romans 11:28.  The verse also explains the reason for God's faithfulness to unbelieving gentiles in Romans 11:30.  God is the faithful savior of both the unbelieving Jews and gentiles.

READER>> Regarding your page 2 Thessalonians 1:9... Here you say that 2 Thess 1:9 "everlasting destruction" refers to temporary punishment, because of Deut 15:17. It does not make sense to me that you are using an argument about the Hebrew word ("olam") to interpret 2 Thess 1:9 (written in Greek, not Hebrew), a completely different language and culture... and especially that there are no contextual clues that this "everlasting destruction" in 2 Thess 1:9 is "temporary."  Something to consider -- How could God have possibly made it any more clear about the "everlasting/eternal destruction" that is coming for unbelievers? If you seek to use the argument that from Deut 15:17 "everlasting" means "temporary," how then could God ever make clear to you or other people that this really does mean everlasting/eternal/forever?  In fact, if you persist in this line of reasoning, what prevents someone from taking other (Greek) words meaning "everlasting" in the NT (such as John 3:16!) and applying your Deut 15:17 Hebrew 'olam' argument to it, and coming to the conclusion that our eternal life is also only temporary? Or that the devil's eternal torment in the lake of fire is also temporary? In the case of certain Old Testament usages of "olam" indicating "for a long time" rather than truly "forever/everlasting," the reason we know that such is the correct meaning of "olam" is that we see other verses which indicate the "end" of the time period in question. (e.g. Jer. 25:9 uses "olam" about an "everlasting desolation," and then verse 12 clarifies that this period is only 70 years). But 2 Thess 1:9 has no such qualifiers.

ME>>  Good point.  Hebrew and Greek are different languages and the Old Testament and New Testament are from different times and cultures.  Yet consider these three good points. 

FIRST) there is Old Testament Biblical precedent for the grace of God abolishing / fulfilling / satisfying the "everlasting" as he did with the Sabbath command and numerous Old Testament everlastings including the Old Covenant itself.  When God satisfied / fulfilled / abolished the eternal commands of the Old Covenant he truly accomplished the impossible (impossible for us, but possible for him).  Thus it is not so radical to consider that God could do the same in the New Testament time period.

SECOND) the New Testament does say that the "gates of Hades" will not overcome the work of the church in Matthew 16:18.  This statement is more than wishful thinking.  This is a promise.  The promise is even prominently linked to the first public acknowledgement of Jesus as Messiah.  The promise specifically offers hope beyond Hades.  So if God has achieved the impossible in nailing the Old Covenant to the cross in public spectacle as explained in Colossians 2:13-15, then why are you so incredulous that the grace of God can bring an end to Hades?  In my book I simply proposed a Biblical interpretive model that explains how this is possible.  Furthermore, Jesus says in Matthew 10:28 that body and soul are destroyed in Hades.  Yet Revelation 20:13 says unbelievers are extracted alive, out of Hades.  By "destroyed" Jesus must not mean ruined beyond hope of his grace, but that the potential to live for Christ, hear the words "well done my faithful servant", or avoid great punishment is missed.

THIRD) both the Arminian and Calvinist models of salvation fall short of reason at different points.  Because they fall short and because faith must also be reasonable, we must be willing to consider alternate models.  The model I have proposed certainly does not have any more weaknesses and I think has greater strengths.  Furthermore, the model I propose remains faithful to two critical gospel facts, 1) Jesus became a man and through his death he became the substitutionary atonement for ALL mankind, and 2) salvation is ALL of grace with no work of man even remotely accepted.  Calvinism fails at point 1 and Arminianism fails at point 2.  As for your argument that "everlasting" cannot have multiple meanings in the New Testament without also allowing for the end of Satan's doom, the end of Heaven, or confusion, consider the Old Testament use of "olam" which also has multiple usages in the Old Testament.  Context is needed to determine the meanings of words.  In fact it is proven through John Wesley Hanson's scholarly work that the Hebrew "olam" and the Greek "aion" are synonyms and mean the "duration of the subject in view."  I have added a brief review and copy of Hanson's work on my website.  Dr. Heleen Keizer has also written a dissertation proving the same titled, Life, Time, Entirety - A Study of Aion in Greek Literature and Philosophy, the Septuagint and Philo.  Read her 315 page dissertation online or an abstract of her conclusions on my website

READER>> You wrote in Certain Knowledge "Some Calvinists argue that possession of faith is proof that you are God's chosen. But again with this understanding faith itself becomes the object of confidence rather than Christ himself. Either way knowledge of salvation for the Calvinist requires confidence that they are part of the chosen subset. So, according to reason, they cannot have true security either."  I disagree... Calvinists can have security, exactly as 1 John describes. When a Calvinist looks back at his life and notices the various changes that 1 John describes, he realizes that his "faith" is real and he can know that he has eternal life.  His faith is placed in Christ and His promises, not in these life changes. But the life changes give him 'assurance' and show him that his faith is genuine.

ME>> Confidence in Christian salvation can never be gained by "looking back at our life!"  This is the reason the Gospel of John typically uses "believe" in the present active tense.  One might easily fool oneself into such confidence by referencing some transcendental experience from the past.  Yet life experience can only ever offer subjective proofs.  Even if we could look back and testify to miracles, a changed life, or angel sightings, even these are totally insufficient for confidence in salvation.  Grand as they may appear, they are mere tokens that can also be possessed by the unbelieving.  Jannes and Jambres performed real miracles in rebellion against Moses, II Timothy 3:8, and they thought they were in the right.  Bill's Story in Alcoholics Anonymous has truly helped many reform and leave a life of alcoholism, even though acknowledging a higher power, but still without saving faith in Jesus Christ.  And as for angel sightings, both Mohammed and Joseph Smith lay claim to that, yet without saving faith in Jesus Christ.

Christian assurance can only and must only come through confidence in the gospel facts and promises found in the person of Jesus Christ.  So again I say that anyone who believes that the atonement is limited in scope will correspondingly be limited in assurance of salvation.  However, they may have deceived themselves into such assurance.  Consider, if I tell you that I paid for all the oranges in a basket and that you can have one for free, then you can pick any orange with great confidence knowing that it is already paid for.  If you have faith in my promise, then you will happily pick an orange, any orange.  If you do not have faith you are still free to pick an orange because they are still paid, but you refuse.  Now suppose I tell you that I paid for particular oranges in the basket, but not others, and only I know which oranges I paid for, then how will you determine which orange to pick out of the basket for free?  What objective fact do you have to lay claim to a particular orange?  In this case, claim of "faith" can only be a pretense because it cannot be founded on an objective fact.  Calvinistic orange picking can only be a form of Russian Roulette.

READER>> Regarding your page Matthew 25:31-46 I didn't understand your argument on verse 46. Were you saying that this "eternal punishment" is the same thing as the temporary punishment of Luke 16? It seems that you did not finish explaining on this page how this "eternal punishment" fits with your theory that no one will end up in the lake of fire.

ME>>  I never said no one ends up in the Lake of Fire.  In fact I said quite the opposite.  All the unredeemed are sentenced to the Lake of Fire with no escape from this judgment.  Matthew 25:31-46 makes it perfectly clear that the Devil and his angels will be sentenced there for The Ages of The Ages.  I was merely pointing out that this passage does not say anything about humans being damned to the Lake of Fire, but only the goats on his left, which I have proved to be the Devil and his angels.  Yet, for the extreme demonstration of his grace, God apparently allows the unbelieving elect to follow Satan to the very precipice of the Lake of Fire.  But will the rebel elect succeed in their mission of self-destruction?  Not a chance with the grace of God on watch!

READER>> You wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:14-21 "These verses even explain that all mankind is ALREADY positionally reconciled to God 'in Christ' apart from faith. Most would teach that each individual is placed 'into Christ' only as they believe in him.  But I understand that those predestined to salvation are never outside of God's grace, because they are always positionally 'in Christ.'  However, as each individual is awakened as a new creation, then they realize their position 'in Christ' and 'live in Christ'."  I disagree. The phrase "the world" here (in context and in the light of other scriptures) could mean "men and women from every nation"...the phrase and context does not require it to mean "every individual".  As to which of these two are in view, although the local context might allow both meanings, I think that if you look at the context of other Scriptures (such as listed below), it is more accurate to take it as "men and women from every nation."

ME>> I will double check my statement that all the elect are positionally "in Christ" before they place faith in Christ.  I know that this understanding is not standard.  However, if anyone agrees to the doctrine of predestination in the least then there must be an acknowledgement of some sort that the elect are ultimately protected from the wrath of God from before the creation of the world.  As for whether "all" means every individual human being, 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 makes it clear that it is in fact the entirety of humanity.  It does not make sense to say that God died for "all types of people," and therefore "all types of people died."  The "all" in this verse is parallel proving that because Christ died for every individual human, therefore every individual human is proved to be spiritually dead apart from spiritual rebirth.  I expand on this point in my article, 'In' Doctrine.

READER>> You wrote in Let's Celebrate "As I explained questions about the extent of God's grace in salvation grew like a dark cloud in my life, clouding my relationship with Christ. I was not sure I would be able to rejoice in Heaven. I needed to agree that Christ had done the right thing in saving some while damning others. Yet I could not and continued to search the Bible." I have likewise struggled emotionally with this, but have "solved my problem" in a different way than you. I have to admit that God knows better than I do... and if (for example) my dear friend for whose salvation I pray every day is eventually sentenced by God to eternal destruction in the lake of fire, I have to trust that God knows best and that I will be able to rejoice in His wisdom and goodness when I get to heaven, even if God doesn't grant my request for my friend's salvation... and even if I cannot now imagine how I will be able to rejoice if my friend is not saved.

ME>> That is a possible conclusion as well, but it is lacking the passion demonstrated by Paul in Romans 9:3.  Salvation by grace, when truly received, emboldens one to stand before his maker and say, "How could you save a disgusting, wicked, wretch like me and leave even one other person unsaved?"  And then wait for the answer.

READER>> Regarding your page RSVP Review. Here you seem to be arguing that because God saving everyone would be a cause for celebration, therefore it must be true. This is an appeal to an emotion, not scripture. If someone responded without enthusiasm for your incorrect Scriptural interpretations, you here describe their lack of enthusiasm as "callousness" and "standing on shaky ground" and "devoid of grace," simply because they were not expressing happy emotions when you presented your view to them. This is a very dangerous line of reasoning. Instead, we ought to go with the Scripture, not with what makes us happy or emotionally satisfied.  I realize that in your other pages you give arguments from Scripture. But here on this page, you give an emotional argument, and one that I think is very dangerous.

ME>>  My concluding paragraph on that page makes it clear that I am not saying something is true because the thought results in a celebration.  However, I am saying that my question did expose that the majority of professing Christians interviewed turned to works salvation as a defense of their belief and attitude.  That is not good.  Rather than coming to terms with pure grace, they have comfortably taken credit for a portion of their salvation adding condition to God's unconditional love.  That is not good at all.  The majority found peace concerning the damned by claiming to merit their own salvation in some way.  Thus I agree that my interview question is very dangerous.  I could get in a lot of trouble for exposing that kind of hypocrisy.

READER>> Here are some more verses which indicate to me that many humans will end up in the lake of fire in the end. It seems you did not discuss these verses: [Daniel 12:1-2, Matthew 7:13-14, John 3:36, John 5:28-29, Rev 14:9-12, and Revelation 21:8ff.] Also, I realize that you consider many of the "judgment verses" below as applying only to the "temporary hell," not the final/permanent lake-of-fire judgment. However I see no Scriptural evidence that people who are in the temporary hell will be spared from going into the final/permanent lake-of-fire judgment, so I think these verses below about Hell also contradict your view (that all humans will eventually be saved), [Matthew 5:29-30, Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 8:11-12, Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 22:11-14, Matthew 25:30, John 15:6, and Luke 13:22-28.]

ME>> Thank you for highlighting these verses.  You are right that I do not think that all these verses are speaking about condemnation to the Lake of Fire.  Plus we must consider that Jesus warns and threatens the unbelieving elect even though they are never in danger of the Lake of Fire.  However, Jesus does damn the non-elect reprobate to the Lake of Fire.  Jesus may speak the same careful words to one group, the other, or even simultaneously to both.  You must at least concede that much to me.  You say, "First, I think that your "four square salvation evaluator" is too simplistic. "Save" (greek sozo) does not always mean save from sin".  Let me clarify about salvation: I understand there are at least five things the Bible tells us we need to be saved from.  The short list is salvation from 1) harm, 2) sin, 3) a fruitless life, 4) Hell (Hades), and 5) the Lake of Fire.  I write at length about this in my article, Saved 5x.  Now, you accused me of being too simplistic, but when you list all these verses above and suggest they are only talking about salvation from number 5, the Lake of Fire, you are the one being too simplistic.  You have inspired me, however, to add a comprehensive study of the various afterlife destinies referenced in your verses and the remainder of the New Testament.  Lord willing I will make progress in my article, Salvation: Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How and my article, Forever is Not Forever?  You Still Gotta Be Kidding Me!  The most troubling passage that you highlighted to me is Daniel 12:1-4.

1) 'At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2) Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3) Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4) But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.


I have found fault with both the Arminian and Calvinistic system of Christian salvation, others may find fault with me as you have done.  Certainly I am not the Holy Spirit, so my interpretations can also be wrong.  I keep my hope in the grace of Christ alone.  I also openly appeal for help from the grace of Christ and interpretive wisdom from the Holy Spirit.  With their help I also hope to add a page about Daniel 12:1-4 in this book as well.  Lord willing I will do so.  I do thank you for reminding me about it and for praying for me.  This passage could be interpreted to unravel my thesis.   Or perhaps the passage speaks of the salvation of man and the condemnation of Satan and his followers.  It is important to note that 2 Peter 2:4 makes it clear that the present nether world, Hades, also has a compartment called Tartarus.  Tartarus currently contains particular fallen angels who were punished in a special way, whereas other demons still roam freely.  The point is that demons will also be among those extracted from Hades / Tartarus at the end of time to face their final judgment as explained in Revelation 20:13.  This fact may be relevant to interpreting Daniel 12:1-4 which I hope to do in my article, Daniel 12:1-4.

Dear reader, I do thank you for taking the time to give me all your valuable feedback.  It was an essential exercise to put my beliefs to a real life test.  I hope we can continue the dialogue.  Currently I just finished reading Erasing Hell by Francis Chan.  Chan glosses over the distinction between Hell / Hades and the Lake of Fire, a vital component to my salvation model.  He also improperly makes Hell to be synonymous with The Lake of Fire at times when he does mention it.  It is true that the common understanding of Hell is final damnation.  However, Biblically, Hell is the temporal punishment in Hades.  The Lake of Fire, however, is condemnation for The Ages of The Ages after the Great White Throne Judgment.  Chan also says something very interesting on page 86 of his book, "The debate about Hell's duration is much more complex than I first assumed.  While I lean heavily on the side that says it is everlasting, I am not ready to claim that with complete certainty."  This is a curious statement by someone writing a book with the main point that people have erred greatly saying that Hell is temporal or punishment in this life.  I think I should write Mr. Chan a note pointing him to the good news in Revelation 20:14.  Hell is a real and certain punishment for the unbelieving.  However, the good news is that Hell / Hades is finally tossed into the Lake of Fire, empty, never to be needed again, forever. Then those extracted from Hell / Hades, both humans and fallen angels, will stand before the Lord of glory for their final judgment.  If anyone's name is not found in the Book of Life they will be cast into the Lake of Fire for The Ages of The Ages.

Friend, do you want to know with certainty that your name is in the Book of Life?  Do you want more confidence than "it seems to be the case?"  You cannot add your name yourself.  You cannot gain confidence through your own decisions.  Instead, through faith in Christ, through eyes opened by the Holy Spirit, you can see your name printed in the Lamb's Book from before the foundations of the world, though of course only if you are one of Jesus' chosen.

So I guess the pertinent question is who has the unbiblical optimism?  Can your choice of "faith" add your name to the Book of Life?  There is no optimistic future through that means.  Grace teaches us that we did not choose Jesus, but that instead he chose us.  Your definition of "faith" falls short of the true confidence we can have trusting that Christ loved all his chosen ones before we loved him.

Is all mankind elect? NO!

One Pastor strongly objected...

READER>> Is all mankind elect? NO!

ME>> Dear Pastor,

Thank you for your study of election that you emailed to me.  Thank you also for taking the time to fully understand my view.  I have no desire to break with tradition unnecessarily.  When one does break with tradition, there are often misunderstandings.  Yet you have not misunderstood.  Second, thank you for not ignoring this difference.  I was short sighted in thinking that the difference did not matter or could be overlooked. Third, thank you for your faithfulness to Regular Baptist tradition which has many good components.  Fourth, thank you for humbly praying that if I am wrong the Lord would correct me, but also that if you are wrong that the Lord would correct you.  We both need the Lord and stand by his grace alone.

Sadly after reading your study below, I continue to disagree with your interpretation.  Yet happily, I still understand the Scripture to teach that all humankind is elect and will be finally saved from the Lake of Fire.  I am also compelled to be the Lord’s servant and warn those who reject grace that they will be punished for the duration in Hades.  Again, I do not have any desire to break with tradition unnecessarily.  Yet after studying your objections I have become even more certain that Jesus is the savior of all mankind.  There have been others in history that have held this view as well as contemporaries with whom I am initiating fellowship.  However, we are a fellowship with "no place to lay our heads."

I have written at length in my book, Optimism Out of Control, to defend my understanding.  Of course you have read this already and disagree.  I would invite you to invest the effort to read it one more time.  It would also be important for you to read my answers to other objections in the Appendix of my book.  I hope to answer your important objections below.  My first goal in doing so is to hold myself accountable to be faithful to the Scriptures.  My second goal is to invite you to join my understanding and re-forge partnership in making disciples.  What a wonderful mission calling lost sheep to trust that Jesus loves them, has forgiven them, and wants to transform them into his image.

Since the minority has broken with tradition on this point, the majority could easily dismiss this view as suspect without any research or reconsideration needed whatsoever.  Yet I hope to defend that Christ is the savior of all mankind with Scripture.  To that end, I begin by saying that your misunderstanding of Scripture and grace are easily repaired with five corrections.

FIVE CORRECTIONS TO TRADITION

1)  Hopefully we agree that only the elect, those chosen by God’s grace without any condition satisfied by man, are predestined to His good purposes.  Yet you reduce election to only or primarily address our eternal state.  Consider that Jesus elects nations, groups, and individuals to various good stations, some temporal and others eternal.  One could be elect or not elect in one dimension while being elect or not elect in another dimension.  For example, Israel was specially chosen as the ancestry of Christ and the guardian of the Old Testament Scripture, Romans 9:4-5.  Yet God has also specially chosen to love other nations, Isaiah 19:24.  The Twelve were specially chosen as Apostles, John 6:70.  Yet God has also specially chosen to work in the lives of all believers, 1 Peter 2:4-5.  Christians are alone chosen for repentance and receiving forgiveness, Romans 2:4.  Yet Christ also chose to forgive all mankind, even the unbelieving unrepentant, from the cross, Luke 23:34 and 1 John 2:1-2.  The Scriptures do not speak of only one "election," but numerous.  Ephesians also makes this plain when the Holy Spirit says in Ephesians 1:11, "we were also chosen."  If we were "also" chosen, then there is more than one dimension to election.  The context of grace enables believers to interpret rightly and boldly.  Christ elected to forgive ALL mankind from the cross from before the creation of the world, Ephesians 1:3-10.   However, NOT ALL, but only some are elected to receive and believe the fact that they are forgiven apart from all conditions before they die, Ephesians 1:11-14.  Christ’s death has already reconciled God’s heart to all mankind, past tense!  Since we are reconciled (past tense), how much more will those who live be saved from sin by his life, Romans 5:10.

2)  Hopefully we both agree that only the elect, those chosen by God’s grace without any condition satisfied by man, are saved from a bad end.  Yet you make salvation to be primarily single-dimensional so that salvation from Hades is equal to salvation from the Lake of Fire.  Consider that if Jesus elects nations, groups, and individuals to various good stations, then he also saves nations, groups, and individuals from various bad stations, again both temporal and eternal.  One could be saved or not saved in one dimension while being saved or not saved in another dimension.  One generation of Israelites was saved from slavery in Egypt, Micah 6:4.  Yet, many Israelite generations were not saved from slavery, but died as slaves in Egypt over 400 years, even though they also were loved by God, Genesis 15:13.  Even those Israelites that God did save from slavery were saved only due to His gracious choice and no merit of theirs, Deuteronomy 9:6.  Noah and his family were saved from the flood, 1 Peter 3: 20.  Yet, the remainder of mankind was not saved from the flood, even though they also were loved by God, Genesis 6:6 and 1 Peter 3:18-20.  David asked for salvation from lying lips, Psalm 120:2.  Yet, Ananias and Sapphira were not saved from lying to the Holy Spirit, or from punishment, even to the loss of their lives, though they were Christians and saved from Hell, Acts 5:1-11. 

Christians, because we have received forgiveness, now have reconciled hearts to God and are saved from the power of sin, Romans 6:1-4, from fruitless lives, 2 Peter 1:4, and from punishment after death, Luke 23:43.  Yet those who reject grace are not saved from the 'aion' (duration) of punishment in Hades, Luke 16:19-31.  The fire of Hades is a fit punishment for their hardened hearts.  So though there is one faith, Ephesians 4:4-6, there are many dimensions to salvation.  Again, the context of grace enables believers to interpret rightly and boldly.  No doubt we agree that Christian salvation is a package deal that saves from both sin and judgment.  Yet we disagree about how the Lake of Fire fits into the package.  David said he could even go to Sheol and not be outside of God’s love, Psalm 139:8.  Jesus taught that the gates of Hades will be finally defeated by God’s grace, Matthew 16:18.  So even the redeemed will be punished in Hades if they continue to reject grace, 2 Peter 2:1.  Yet the redeemed will not go to the Lake of Fire, Romans 11:32, Revelation 20:15.  The gates of Hades will be defeated!

3)  Hopefully we agree that Greek studies are helpful and a word can have several valid denotations and different applications.  As just proved above, the same Greek word translated "salvation" can be applied to salvation from sin, futile purpose, harm, Hades, and the Lake of Fire.  Likewise the Greek word "aion" is used to describe the duration of different epochs.  For example "aion" in Romans 16:25 indicates the "duration" of the earth to the present time, while "aion" in Romans 16:26, one verse later, indicates the "eternal" God.  Matthew 28:20 likewise speaks of the end of "aion," this "age."  Other non-eternal uses of "aion" include Matthew 24:3, Luke 16:8, Luke 20:34-35, John 9:32, Acts 3:21, Romans 12:2, 1 Corinthians 1:20, 2:6-8, 3:18, 10:11, 2 Corinthians 4:4, Galatians 1:4, Ephesians 1:21, 2:2, 2:7, 3:9, Colossians 1:26, 2 Timothy 4:10, Hebrews 6:5, 9:26, and Hebrews 11:3.  John Wesley Hanson's classic work proves that "aion" means the duration of the object in question whether finite or eternal.  Septuagint usage proves that "aion" is synonymous with Hebrew "olam" which can mean temporal or eternal.  Read Hanson's work from my website.  (Though I do not agree with Hanson’s application in Matthew 25:31-46.)  Dr. Helena Keizer’s dissertation proves the same: Life, Time, Entirety – A Study of Aion in Greek Literature and Philosophy, the Septuagint and Philo.  Read her 315 page dissertation online or read an abstract of her conclusions from my website.  The English word "eon" even descends etymologically from "aion!"  Yet you and tradition chose "aion" to mean "eternal" in 2 Thessalonians 1:9.  Why?

The context of grace is a better interpretive tool than tradition when choosing between valid denotations.  If you are convinced that you are saved from eternity in the Lake of Fire because of your free will choice of Christ, then you have little need to answer the question as to why you chose Christ while the majority did not.  You give your free will the credit.  Or if you are persuaded that Jesus set his special love on you and paid for your sin while also not loving others and not paying for their sin, then again there is little need for Greek studies.  You have missed the beauty of the cross that paid for the sins of all, as highlighted in particular by the Pharisees' hatred of Christ for extending grace to the Gentiles.  Yet Jesus loved both the Pharisees and the pagans.  He forgave us all from the cross even though no one asked for forgiveness.

4)  Hopefully we both agree that Jesus identified the unbelieving Jews as, "not his sheep," in John 10:26.  Yet you interpret Jesus' words to mean they were not elect and never would be elect.  You conclude that they are not sheep, or even lost sheep, but instead goats.  You conclude that these Jews whom Jesus spoke to are eternally passed over by God’s love and damned with hatred by God for eternity.  Yet, consider from point #1 in this list that election is not a single dimensional concept.  Just because these particular Jews were apparently not elected to believe (at least as evidenced at that moment) does not mean that Jesus did not elect to pay for their sin, or that they did not believe later.  And if you agree that they could believe later, then you must also agree that they were predestined from before they were even born and thus ultimately always God’s sheep, albeit, lost.  Simply, Jesus is willing to confront stubborn lost sheep by saying they are "not his sheep."  Jesus is employing the pattern of Hosea 2:23 to confront the stubborn unbelief of these Jews.  Certainly you do not interpret Hosea 2:23 to mean that God’s love for his people is "off again" and then "on again!"  God’s eternal love for his people is eternally constant according to Jeremiah 31:3.  Yet God clearly says in Hosea 2:23 that the unbelieving are, "not my loved one," and then again after their repentance they are, "my loved one."  How is this to be understood?  Romans 9:13 likewise quotes Malachi 1:1-3 saying that God hated Esau.  So does God only love a small subset of mankind while allowing his hatred and wrath to damn the majority for all eternity?  Or does God simply offer love to mankind, but only those who reciprocate are spared from damnation?  There is a better answer as explained in Romans 11:28.  Jewish unbelievers and all unbelievers are enemies of the gospel because of their rejection of Christ, yet they are loved on account of election.  ALL mankind is loved by Christ because they are ALL elect, yet they remain enemies of the gospel until they are converted and place faith in Christ.

5)  Hopefully we both agree that true Biblical faith must be reasonable and maintain integrity with both the Scriptures and logic.  The Four Square Salvation Evaluator was designed to help people think through the Biblical and logical questions needed to properly understand salvation by grace. Yet after reading your objections below I am having trouble figuring out just what your view is, whether Arminian or Calvinist.  I am very clear that you object with my understanding.  Yet, both Boice and Lewis concluded that there is no middle ground between Arminianism and Calvinism.  Could I ask you to explain your specific view in more detail?  For example, Boice boldly believed that if God loves you at all then there is absolutely no escape from his love and determination to bring you safely to final salvation.  I believe exactly the same.  However, since he neglected the distinction between Hades and the Lake of Fire and the meaning of "aion," he then concluded that God does not love, nor will ever love the majority of mankind who are damned.  This is an unfortunate error.

On the other hand Lewis boldly believed that God makes an offer of love to every individual, but for love to be true love, God must allow each individual's free will choice of faith to be the determining factor in their final salvation.  He has my respect for being clear on this point, though I strongly disagree with his view of the character of God's love.  He also did not appreciate the distinction between Hades and the Lake of Fire and so concluded that most of mankind is damned because they do not accept Christ with their free will.  Lewis also offers no Biblical explanation as to why a few repent and most do not because his view is not Biblical.  Lewis missed the point of grace: God loved us first while we still hated him.  I can also respect a third person who has doubts and is struggling to understand how all these things add up.  He has simple faith in Christ and knows that Christ is the judge of the whole Universe and he trusts God's judgment without telling God he cannot extend saving grace to all mankind.  This person also has my respect.  However, you have objected strongly to my understanding that all mankind is elected to salvation from the Lake of Fire.  You have said that God simply cannot save all mankind!  Yet I am struggling to completely understand how you yourself have answered the important questions raised in my book.

Please consider these five points and my request for further explanation of your view of grace.  In the meantime, I am concerned that your view does not have both feet planted on the bedrock of God’s grace.  I began to be aware of this when you said, "surely you believe in free will" and also, "but God uses means in salvation."  Do you then believe that our free will is the deciding factor in our final salvation as Lewis did?  Perhaps I misheard.  You did use the metaphor, "it is a free gift, but you have to write your name on it."  With a proper understanding of grace we should instead say, "God has written our names all over his free gift, but we must repent of all self-righteousness before we will be willing to receive it."  We are rebellious children with terrible attitudes, yet with a Father who has written our names all over his gifts to us.  However, until we repent we will not receive his gift!  In your objections below you observe that Isaiah 53:6 says that Christ died for all sin and that according to John 3:16, Christ died for the world.  You conclude that since "the Bible teaches all of the above and so must we!" Your words betray a curious confession.  You are certain that some are saved including yourself, yet the most you can say about Christ’s death for ALL is that "the Bible teaches it and so must we?"  It sounds like you are saying, "I trust that Christ paid for my sin and so I am spared damnation, and even though I do not understand how it works, Christ also paid for the sins of all mankind, but most of them are going to be damned."  That is not good.  You gravely urge your own audience to take action to escape the Lake of Fire.  Yet your tone could only result in persuading fearful people to "pray a prayer" or meet a "condition" to "write their name on the gift."  Instead, we are calling lost sheep not to reach up, but to fall down on their knees and repent of all self-righteousness to receive the gift already given.  It would seem we really do have two different gospels and partnership with this difference would be difficult as you already know.

Your points are listed in gray below and my comments follow, referencing my points 1 through 5 above.

PASTOR'S POINTS HIGHLIGHTED WITH MY ANSWER FOLLOWING EACH POINT

1)    Is all mankind elect? NO (Note- “elect” is from the Greek word “eklektos” which has four variations in the NT and is used a total of 55 times; the below is an exegetical summation of the above answer)

All mankind is not elect in every dimension.  For example most of mankind is not elected to trust in Christ, but the wrath of God is still appeased for all mankind through the death of Christ. #1

a.    Specific individuals (e.g. Ishmael; Esau) not chosen- the “children of God” are the “children of promise” (Rom. 9:8) according to “God’s choice” (Rom. 9:11).

Esau was not elected for a believing heart or to be the ancestor of Christ, but he was chosen for his sins to be paid, along with all mankind. #1

b.    Only a “remnant” of Israel was “chosen” the rest were hardened (Rom. 11:5-6); there is coming a day when “all Israel” will be saved (Rom. 11:25-32).

Most of Abraham’s physical descendants are not chosen for faith.  However, the day is coming when Christ’s atonement for all mankind will be believed by all. #1

c.    God has chosen some not all (I Corinthians 1:26-31).

True, only some are chosen to become Christians.  Nonetheless, the sins of all mankind, believing and unbelieving, are still chosen for forgiveness. #1-2

d.    Those whom God chooses He predestines to adoption and redeems through Christ’s blood and makes them know the mystery of His will and gives to them an inheritance and seals them with the Holy Spirit (after believing in the Gospel of salvation)- who is the pledge of the believer’s inheritance (Eph. 1:3-14; also see I Peter 1:1-2; note - although “elect” is not used in Rom. 8:28-30 the teaching is similar).

The blessings highlighted in Ephesians 1:1-10 are not the result of faith nor do those versus say any such thing.  Instead these are the blessings granted to all the elect before faith, but only the believing elect are able to see these blessings.  Ephesians 1:11, however, transitions to a second dimension of election, namely that the Ephesian Christians where chosen for belief to the praise of God’s glory. #1.  It is the same today.  God’s decision to pay for the sins of all mankind remains the great finished work of Christ for all mankind, yet very few are chosen to believe it.

e.    Only believers in God’s “living stone” which is “choice and precious” in God’s sight are identified as a “chosen race” (I Peter 2:4-10).

Agreed.  Believers are specially chosen and elected to believe and are the 'chosen race' mentioned in this verse.  The unbelieving elect are not given this title. #1

f.    Only those who have a “faith of the same kind” and a “true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory” can be “diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing” (II Peter 1:1-11).

Certainly.  Only believers who acknowledge their election can make their election certain.  Unbelievers, however, cannot see God’s eternal love for them.  They are blind to the blessings they have in Christ because they refuse to believe. #1

g.    The Lamb, the Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him: “the called and chosen and faithful” will defeat the “beast: who was and is not and is about to come” and “those who dwell on the earth whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.” (Rev. 17:8-14; also see Rev. 13:7-10).

Agreed.  Only believers stand with Christ during this time. #1-2.  More at 3.b.

2)    Some other verses that indicate that not all mankind is elect:

a.    John 6:37, 44, 55- “all that the Father gives Me will come to Me…” – the fact that many do not come to Jesus indicates that they are not given to Jesus by the Father.

Agreed.  God the Father, for the demonstration of grace, has not chosen to bring even most of mankind to faith in Christ.  Yet that does not change the fact that his eternal wrath against their sin is still propitiated by the death of Christ.  And if their sin is propitiated from God’s wrath, then who can possibly damn them?  These unbelieving are deeply loved by Christ even though they remain unbelieving.  However, only those chosen for faith come to Christ in humble repentance. #1-2

b.    John 8:47- “…for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

Agreed.  These Jews were apparently not chosen for faith, at least at that time. #1

c.    John 10:26-28- “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow me…and they will never perish…”

Agreed.  These Jews were not chosen for faith, but instead unbelief.  If they persist in unbelief, if God does not open their eyes, they will be punished in Hades. #1

d.    Acts 13:48 (first missionary journey; at Pisidian Antioch; following the “word of the Lord” on the second Sabbath) - “When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.” – the fact that not all believed indicates that not all (in that assembly) were appointed to eternal life.

Are you saying that this verse means that if someone hears the gospel and does not believe immediately that it is proved that they are not elected to salvation from the Lake of Fire?  Do you side with Calvin in saying that their sins were never paid or with Lewis in saying that they never reciprocated love for God?  I heard the gospel multiple times over multiple years before my eyes where opened to the truth.  A better understanding of this verse is that the Apostles and the Holy Spirit are confronting unbelief just as Hosea did in Hosea 2:23 and Jesus did in John 10:26.  #4.  This Scripture could also be distinguishing between the destinies of the unbelieving to the fires of Hades versus the believers to paradise, since the Greek word translated eternal is 'aionios'. #2-3

3)    Is every man’s name written in the Lamb’s book of life?  NO

This is the point upon which we disagree. #1

a.    Following GWT judgment unbelievers are in the lake of fire- Rev. 21:7-8; 22:15.  (Note- there is not one NT example of the Greek word “apistos” and its three variations [57 total usages] being used to describe angelic beings rather only human beings.)

Revelation 21:8 places eight sins on parallel footing.  They are cowardice, unbelief, vileness, murder, fornication, sorcery, idolatry, and lying.  Notice that the sin of unbelief is not even listed first by way of importance.  Furthermore, because the sin of unbelief is included in the list as a peer with the sin of lying, we can legally conclude that the unbelieving truth teller and the believing liar will both be sentenced to the Lake of Fire.  You and I are both liars yet the verse gives no indication that belief will exempt us from the verdict of damnation for our lying since unbelief is equal with lying on this list.  Your whole emphasis seems to be that your "faith" has saved you from damnation to the Lake of Fire.  However, this verse is not purposed to drive people to reach up and provide the "condition of faith" to be saved from the Lake of Fire.  Impossible.  Instead this verse is purposed to drive the lost sheep down on our knees to the foundation of election and trust that Christ has loved us from before the foundation of the world and paid for all our sin even though we are still liars and many of the things on this terrible list.  The religious may continue to fool themselves into thinking their "faith" or self-righteousness is sufficient to exempt them from the condemnation of this verse.  However, the truly believing boldly trust that only the electing grace of God will exclude us from this damnation because all mankind is guilty of these sins.  You are in great error in your understanding of this verse.  Your argument that "apistos" is never used to describe fallen angels is weak as an argument from the absence of evidence.  I have written further about this verse in my article, How Can You Say Revelation 21:8 Does Not Apply to Humans. The purpose of Revelation 21:7-8 is the final condemnation of the non-elect, fallen angels, and also as a warning to unbelieving elect humanity who persist in rejecting grace to drive them to faith. #4. 

The key question that stands before us then is what is election?  Months ago I mentioned the concept of the "unbelieving elect" and you seemed surprised and confused by the expression.  Perhaps you think that since faith is required for salvation from the Lake of Fire that election is born the moment someone believes?  However, election is clearly a reality from before the foundation of the world for each of God’s chosen ones.  Election is not merely God foretelling the future as to who will exercise their free will and make the good choice of faith.  Election is his rock solid eternal decree. God’s chosen ones are elect even before faith and thus are the "unbelieving elect" until faith, Romans 11:28.

b.    People who dwell on the earth whose names are not in the Lamb’s book of life worship the “beast of the sea” in opposition to God and His saints- Rev. 13:1-8 (also see Rev. 17:8).

Thank you for calling these verses to my attention.  I can see how they lend to your interpretation.  However, the Scripture and character of God’s grace both support my understanding and so the clear Scripture should be used to interpret the less clear.  Here are two possible explanations.  First, Revelation 13:8 and 17:8 are not clear on the specific identity of those not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.  Fallen angels could be in view.  I understand Isaiah 66:22-24 to explain that fallen angels will live embodied upon the earth in the future.  I write about this on number 8 of my article, Ten Theological Absurdities.  Some theologians believe that angels lived embodied upon the earth in the past, so why not the future?  However, I would not hinge my conclusions on speculation about embodied angels on the earth.   Second, Exodus 32:33 suggests that someone’s name can be blotted out of the Lamb’s Book of Life.  I understand this to be God speaking foolishness to the fool, Proverbs 26:4-5.  If the names of the predestined can be blotted out then salvation is dependent upon human condition or a capricious God.  Ultimately it is impossible that God’s love and eternal plans for his chosen one will ever change such that names are blotted out of the Lamb’s Book, or else grace would not be grace.  Furthermore, it is demonstrated that God says to the unbelieving elect that they are not his sheep or acknowledged in the Lamb’s Book, even though they are listed there because he later warmly calls the repentant, "my people."  These verses could easily be explained by #4.

c.    How many enter the new Jerusalem?...”but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” in contrast to those who are “unclean…who practices abomination and lying.”  Rev. 21:27

Are you saying that the elect are not impure and no longer do anything shameful or deceitful?  The verse is not an exhortation to be good enough to somehow write our name in the Lamb’s Book of Life through a free will decision of faith.  You and I are both at times impure and do shameful things.  This verse is purposed to encourage the believing elect that our sin cannot follow us into Heaven!  That is awesome news!  The verse also stands as a warning to the unbelieving elect to drive them to receive their election and forgiveness already given through faith in Jesus Christ.  The verse is not intended to drive people to the work of conditional salvation.  That is impossible.  #1

4)    Are there “unbelieving” elect upon physical death and/or at the beginning of the GWT judgment?  NO

Psalm 139:8, Matthew 16:17-20, Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 3:3, Romans 11:28-32, 1 Peter 3:19, 1 Peter 4:6, and 2 Peter 2:1 all add up to show that God’s love will not fail even for those who remain unbelieving at physical death and are punished in Hades.  Furthermore, I think it interesting that the rich man in Hades called Abraham, "Father" and Abraham called him "child."  It is not enough information to conclude that he was elect based on that alone, however, these affectionate titles are most curious if you think that the rich man is finally damned.  1 Peter 3:19 indicates also that Christ preached to those in Hades.  What did he preach?  1 Peter 4:6.  Furthermore, I’ve already mentioned that David thought he could even go to Sheol and yet not be outside of God’s love, Psalm 139:8.  Jesus also taught that the gates of Hades will be finally defeated by God’s grace, Matthew 16:18.  It is a fearful thought that those who reject grace will be punished in Hades even though their sins are completely forgiven, but better a fearful truth than the imaginary thought that religion can save us.  Revelation 20:13-14 makes it clear that Hades is emptied and Matthew 25:31-46 gives the most complete account of the Great White Throne Judgment to come.  Here are my thoughts on that in my article, You Are Wrong About Matthew 25:31-46.  Of course the majority of the Scripture is focused on calling people to repent and trust in the love of Christ so we do not have a huge window into the world of those already passed.  Yet we do know some things.  2 Peter 2:1-2 also makes it clear that false teachers will be sentenced to Hades even though they are redeemed.  Boice goes to great lengths to deny the truth of this verse because it does not fit into Calvinism.

a.    Election is always in conjunction with God’s “salvation” call experienced through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as proclaimed in the Gospel (Ephesians 1:3-14; Romans 8:28-30; Romans 10:14-17)

Yes, I see where the confusion is.  I have already explained that Ephesians 1:3-10 says absolutely nothing about faith as the cause of election.  Rather Ephesians 1:11-14 explains that faith is the receiving of forgiveness and of election already given.  Note that Romans 8:28-30, the great chain of grace, says nothing about faith as a component of final salvation.  There is no condition or even response of man listed in this great chain, but only the unconditional love of Christ for all his chosen people.  If there were even the smallest condition dependent upon us, we would all be lost!  I have written further here that justification is a work already finished at the cross, yet received as each one comes to faith as explained in my article, Justified.  Romans 10:14-17 is our exhortation to tell the lost sheep the good news that their sins are already paid for, yet no one will believe apart from also being elected to believe.  The prideful rejection of grace and unconditional love is evident in every generation.  #1

b.    John 6:37, 44, 55- “all that the Father gives Me will come to Me…”

Yes!  If someone is a Christian, it is because he was chosen for belief. #1-2

c.    Jesus’ sheep hear His voice and follow Him- John 10:27

Yes!  If someone is a Christian, it is because he was chosen for belief. #1-2

5)    Is salvation by grace independent of salvation through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as proclaimed in the Gospel? NO

Yes, this summarizes our greatest difference.  You proclaim either that Christ provided for the possibility of salvation for all, or the certainty of salvation for a few.  You then urge people to either provide the missing condition of faith, or to simply trust that they are one of the chosen few.  Which do you proclaim again?  Yet Jesus proclaimed that the sins of all mankind are fully paid apart from all our works and even our response of faith, Luke 23:34.  And if our sins are paid, then the wrath of God is fully satisfied against all mankind.  Thus we urge both the self-righteous and the unrighteous to believe the good news, while warning those who reject grace that they will be punished in the fires of Hades.  Jesus warned about Hell because of his passionate love to spare the unbelieving from the fires of Hades.  Once again, certainly not everyone is saved.  That is, very few are saved from unbelief to Christian faith, transformed lives, and avoiding punishment in Hades.  Faith is essential for all these blessings.  The vast majority are not saved from punishment in Hades.  Yet, based on the atoning sacrifice of Christ alone, the sins of all mankind are already paid for and thus not even God can damn them to the Lake of Fire.  His decision has already been made.

a.    The God of all grace (I Peter 5:10) is also the God of the Gospel (Romans 1:16-17) which is His power that leads the elect to saving faith (Romans 10:17).

The emphasis of Romans 1:16-17 and the arguments that follow in Romans concern salvation from sin and in particular religious hypocrisy.  You will note that Romans does not mention Hades or the Lake of Fire one time!  Those that believe Christ has already paid for our sin are transformed by the power and loving grace of God. #2.  Now I am not saying that salvation from the Lake of Fire is not the grand conclusion of salvation or that we don’t deserve to be eternally damned.  However, I am saying that the main point of Romans is not fire insurance, but calling the believing elect to salvation from sin and to a transformed life.  Romans 1:16-17 well notes that the power of the gospel is only for those who believe that their sins are forgiven.  The remainder of mankind, who do not believe, even though their sins are also forgiven, are not saved from sin or a hardened heart toward God, and so cannot enjoy living in God’s love.

b.    Grace and faith are “friends” that work together in the saving operations of God-  Eph. 2:8-9; Romans 9:6-10:17; Eph. 1:3-14

Absolutely.  Grace does it all and Biblical faith trusts that all has been done by grace!  However, when you speak, I think you are making faith to be some sort of activating ingredient in God’s love toward us?  Faith does not change God’s heart toward us in the least nor his eternal destiny for the elect.  However, faith does change our heart toward God.  When you say grace and faith are friends, from your viewpoint, it sounds like you are saying grace and faith "work together" to save the individual.  If that is what you are saying, then you have stepped away from Biblical faith to an understanding of faith that really is a work or condition provided by man.  That is a dangerous thing to do.  Paul wrote the book of Galatians to confront an entire church that had fallen away from a right understanding of grace.  Galatians 3 does not highlight fine theological argument, but simply a crucified Christ.  A right understanding of grace and the end of religious striving proceed from this fact. #1-5

c.    It is the “word of God’s grace” (Acts 20:32) that brings “new birth” to those who hear and believe (Acts 11:15-17; I Peter 1:22-25); the “new birth” that is required for one to see/enter the kingdom of God (John 3:3,5).

Exactly.  Only those chosen for faith enjoy the confidence that their sins have been already paid.  Only those chosen for faith have been born again to a new heart.  #1

6)    Is faith a “work of man”? NO

Are you saying that faith is not "work" because it is granted only by God’s grace?  I agree.  Or are you saying that everyone has a free will to meet the condition of faith, but this condition supplied by man is not considered a "work"?  If so you have compromised grace.  Luther’s book Bondage of the Will is helpful reading to correct that error.

a.    Faith is a necessary part of the operations of the saving grace of God- man is saved by grace through faith: both of which are part of the gift of God- Eph. 2:8-9.

Faith is evidence of the new birth and the beginning of a new and good heart towards God.  There is no salvation from sin or exemption from Hades without faith.  #1

b.    Apart from faith man does not experience justification (Gen. 15:6; Romans 3:23-26) nor the new birth (John 1:12-13); nor does man have life/eternal life (John 5:24; I John 5:11-13).

Are you saying that faith initiates the new birth?   I John 5:1 makes it clear that faith is the result of the new birth rather than vice versa.  Regarding justification I understand that justification was completed at the cross such that the acquitting gavel has already pronounced our justification in Heaven.   Now the Holy Spirit, God’s great evangelist, is persuading individuals to receive our justification.  I have written about this in my article, Justified. Biblical faith is not the activator of God’s love for his people or else grace would not be grace.  The false gospel says, "trust Christ and you can be born again and forgiven."  The true gospel says, "You are already forgiven by Christ and only those born again will trust Him."

c.    “Saving” faith is faith that hears the Gospel and “believes in the heart that God raised Him from the dead” and “confesses with the mouth Jesus as Lord (Romans 10:5-13); saving faith is also a “works-producing” faith (Eph. 2:10; James 2:14).

Amen!  Certainly one cannot claim to have a heart changed toward God without faith that produces loving works.  Salvation from sin means that real progress is made in leaving sin behind.  However, once again if the doctrine of predestination is true in any sense whatsoever, then faith plays absolutely no part in adding our names to the Lamb’s Book of Life or saving us from the Lake of Fire.  No condition provided by man can save us from the holy wrath of God, but only the electing grace of God and the finished work of Jesus Christ.  #2

7)    Are fallen angels before God at the GWT judgment? NO

I believe some fallen angels will be judged there, 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6.

a.    The false prophet and the beast are not there- Rev. 19:20.  (Note- if the false prophet and/or the beast are men then “not all men are elect.”)

Yes, as you say, The Beast and The False Prophet are already in the Lake of Fire before the Great White Throne Judgment.  However, I also believe that The Beast  and The False Prophet in Revelation are demonic.  Read more in my articles, Revelation 20:10, Fallen Angels at the Great White Throne Judgment, and Eschatology is the Study of Future Good News! (Part 2 with Grudem, Riddlebarger, Chilton, Summers, and Ewing).

b.    The devil is not there- Rev. 20:10.

Agreed.  He is already in the Lake of Fire before the Great White Throne Judgment.

c.    The resurrected dead (unbelievers) are there; angelic beings do not experience “physical death” thus will never experience any kind of resurrection.  (Note- the GWT judgment is the final judgment upon unbelievers; believer’s final judgment is the “Bema” seat judgment of II Cor. 5:10.)

We have a difference here.  I believe that both unbelieving mankind and fallen angels are extracted from Hades and Thalassa to stand before the Great White Throne judgment.  2 Peter 2:4 makes it clear that some fallen angels are already locked up to be judged later.  When are they judged?  I believe they will be judged later at the Great White Throne judgment.  These unredeemed angels are also the people on Jesus’ left in Matthew 25:31-46.  Whether the imprisoned angels are "resurrected" or not I do not know, but Revelation 20:13 makes it clear that both Hades and Thalassa are fully emptied.

d.    According to II Peter 2:4, “God did not spare angels when they sinned but cast them into hell (from the Greek word “tartaroo” which is literally translated as tartarus) and committed them to pits (from the Greek word “siros” which refers to a cave/pit) of darkness reserved for judgment.”  Whether or not “tartarus” and these “pits of darkness” are one and the same as “hades” (Rev. 20:13-14) is a matter of discussion however there is no sense of these angels dying physically and thus being resurrected unto judgment at the GWT judgment.  If these angels are in Hades then they remain there when Hades “gives up the dead” (Rev. 20:13) as well as when Hades is “thrown into the lake of fire” (Rev. 20:14).

To say that fallen angels will not be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment is to conclude more than is possible.  The account of the Great White Throne Judgment in Matthew 25:41 makes it clear that these unredeemed fallen angels will stand before Christ for final judgment and be cast into the Lake of Fire, where Satan had already been tossed as you pointed out above.  Note also that Matthew 25:41 explicitly says that the Lake of Fire is prepared for "the devil and his angels."  The Lake of Fire is not prepared for mankind who has been completely redeemed by the death of Christ.  Instead the Lake of Fire is for the unredeemed, the fallen angels.  Hebrews 2:14-16 also makes it clear that Jesus is not the helper fallen angels.  They are unredeemed.  However, 1 John 2:1-2 makes it doubly clear that Jesus did die for all mankind, the redeemed, whether believing or unbelieving.  Please read my article, Fallen Angels at the Great White Throne Judgment.

8)    What is the “eternal state” of those who do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior?

a.    “Perish”- John 3:16 (note- Christ’s sheep will not perish- John 10:28).

Yes, the unbelieving will perish in the fires of Hades.  Traditional interpretation assumes that the perishing is eternal.  However, that is not the case for three reasons.  First, the Greek word "apollymi" translated "perish" in John 3:16 is used numerous places in the New Testament to mean catastrophic loss, but not eternal loss, such as Matthew 2:13.  Herod sought to kill Jesus, but even Herod knew he could not eternally destroy anyone.  Second, the Greek word "aionios" translated "eternal" in John 3:16 might be referring to eternal, but could also refer to "complete" or "whole" life of Christian restored to fellowship with God  The Greek word "aionios" can mean "age," "epoch," "duration," "complete," and "eternal."  Thus believers live and reign during the Church Age and enjoy whole life, while unbelievers perish in the fires of Hades. Third, notice that a careful reading of John 3:1-21 states the positive that believers are saved from perishing, but there is no mention of Hades, the Lake of Fire, or eternal punishment for the unbelieving!  This passage could even be understood to teach that believers are saved from the destruction of sin for a restored whole life, while the lives of unbelievers are destroyed by sin.  Yet I do believe that the unbelieving are punished in the fires of Hades. #3

b.    “Eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord”- II Thes. 1:9 (note-destruction” is from the same word family as “perish” in the Greek- the Greek word “apolluo” [“apollyon”- Rev. 9:11]).

Again "apollymi" does not necessarily mean eternal destruction as just explained above.  Furthermore "aionios" does not always mean eternal, but can mean "age," "duration," or even "complete."  Thus, those who reject their election will be punished for the duration of Hades and suffer complete loss.  The contexts of the Scriptural passage, of the subject, and of grace are all required to properly interpret the meanings of "apollymi" and "aionios."  Furthermore there is strong evidence that "from" should be translated "at" in my article, 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10.  #3

c.    “Destruction”- II Peter 3:7 (note above).

Agreed.  The lives of unbelievers will be destroyed by the fruit of sin and punished in the fires of Hades by the wrath of God.  However, this word alone does not require eternal destruction as already explained.  There are other types of destruction such as the destruction from the consequence of sin and the destruction found in Hades.

d.    “Wide gate and the broad way” lead to “destruction”- Matt. 7:13 (note above).

Yes.  Sadly for the purposes of his grace God only brings the few to trust that their sins are paid for while the self-righteous persist in rejecting the good news.  Rather than cling to Christ, they cling to their cement life preserver.  The good news is so plain and simple at times it is almost maddening to explain to unbelievers that they can trust that Christ has already paid for all their sin.  Too often we cling to tradition, fear, rebellion, or ignorance instead of clinging to Christ.

e.    Those who do not “receive the love of the truth so as to be saved” will “perish- II Thes. 2:10 (note above).

Yes, unbelievers will perish through the consequences of their sin as well as punishment in Hades.

f.    Eternal fire and punishment- Matt. 25:41, 46.

I understand that Matthew 25:31-46 is speaking about the Great White Throne Judgment at the precipice of the Lake of Fire.  Thus, I believe that the unredeemed on Christ’s left are the fallen angels, while the redeemed on his right are the unbelieving humans, both just extracted from Hades.  Those on Christ’s right are given grace, while those on his left are damned to the Lake of Fire for The Ages of The Ages.  Thus I agree with you that "aionios" in this case might be eternal based on the context of the passage.  Note that Hanson, whose work I referenced above, tries to interpret this judgment to be other than eternal, but as I mentioned I disagree with his understanding.  Though, I have considered the possibility of "apokatastasis" that would include even that final salvation of the demons from the Lake of Fire.  Check out the chart in my article, Eschatology is the Study of Future Good News!

Note also that the salvation of those on his right is not a second chance!  Salvation was never a chance in the first place!  Since Christ has already served as the vicarious substitute for all mankind, even the sins of the wicked, unbelieving humans in Hades are completely paid.  The wrath of God is propitiated and it would be impossible that they could be damned to the Lake of Fire.  For the same reason that I cannot go to the Lake of Fire, since Christ paid for my sin, they likewise cannot go to the Lake of Fire because their sins are paid… whether they believe it or not.  Who will damn them if God himself has already paid for their sin?  The salvation of the redeemed is based solely on the work of Christ at the cross.  To assert otherwise is to impugn grace with a condition.  To add condition to grace is to follow the path of 2 Peter 2:2.

g.    Lake of fire and brimstone- Rev. 20:15; 21:8 (the “second death”); 22:15 (“outside”).

Yes, certainly the Lake of Fire is for The Ages of The Ages and the sentence of Satan and his demon following.

h.    “Eternal death” (I John 5:11-13; by implication).

The phrase "does not have life" could easily be understood to mean "has not yet" believed or received their eternal life.  You also would agree that an unbeliever does "not have life," YET.  In fact this understanding is consistent with the Holy Spirit’s goal to drive people to faith in Christ.

i.    The “wrath of God”- Col. 3:6.

Yes, the wrath of God is upon the unbelieving, even though their sins are paid and they are deeply loved by God.  This wrath is not eternal wrath, or even fatherly wrath, since the unbelieving are not yet his children.  Instead this is Holy wrath against sin and the sinful nature of the unregenerate.  It is the wrath that burned against me while I lived in unbelief.

j.    “Die in their sins”- John 8:24.

Yes, the unbelieving die in their sins, remain unregenerate, and enter the fires of Hades as a fit punishment for creatures that hate the God of love and his grace.  Some others suggested that I taught that the time in Hades was a way to "work" one’s way back into God’s grace.  I have taught no such thing, but instead that the fires of Hades are a fit punishment for the unbelieving who are unregenerate and hate God by nature.  Those in Hades hate grace and the truth that God loves them equally with all mankind.  Jesus words "die in their sins" does not say anything about eternal death, but only that they remain unregenerate as they pass from this world.

9)    Must a man believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior before physical death to enter into God’s Kingdom? YES

Yes, most certainly.  Unbelievers do not reign in Christ's Kingdom, as discussed in Revelation 20.  Yet Christ's Kingdom is still not the end of this world.  The final judgment at the Great White Throne Judgment is not until the commencement of eternity when the grace of God is proved finally victorious even for the unbelieving humans punished in Hades.

a.    Unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3, 5); one is “born again” by “receiving Him (i.e. Christ)”/”believing in His name” (John 1:12-13).

Exactly, without faith one cannot see the truth.  However, just because some cannot see God’s love for them does not mean that God does not love them.  That would be like a child who hides his own eyes and then thinks his parents cannot see him.  There is no hiding from the love of God.  I’ve written some about that in my article, John 3:36 Offers No Optimism.

b.    “It is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).

Yes.  There is judgment and giving account to the Lord at each one’s death.  However, this verse or the surrounding context says absolutely nothing about the Lake of Fire or eternal judgment.

10)    Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ:

a.    Christ died for all sin- Isaiah 53:6

Yes!

b.    Christ died for the world- John 3:16

Yes!

c.    Christ died for His church- Eph. 5:25

Yes!

d.    Christ died for me- Gal. 2:20

Yes!

e.    Christ’s death is appropriated by those who believe- Romans 3:21-26 and not appropriated by those who do not believe (I Peter 2:7-8).

Yes!  Believers receive the blessings of God’s love because we believe it.  The unbelieving reject God’s love and their election and suffer because of it.  My favorite passages on this subject are Romans 5:17 and 2 Corinthians 5:15.  Both passages make it clear that Christ loves all mankind and has paid for all mankind’s sin, but only those who believe are able to LIVE for God!  Just because someone rejects God’s love does not mean that God stops loving them.  A mere offer of love from God is totally silly.  However, those who reject God’s love will be punished severely.  The "appropriation" of God’s love does not cause God to love us.  He loved us while we hated him.  Romans 5:10 even goes further to say we were reconciled to God through Christ while we were yet his enemies, before we had faith!  So the "appropriation" of Christ’s death changes our hearts toward God, but God’s heart toward us was determined long before that.

I began the paragraph with a "yes" of agreement, but I do not think we agree.  It seems you are saying that we must apply the payment of Christ’s death to our account ourselves through faith.  If I understand properly, you are saying that salvation is grace plus the human condition of faith, an unfortunate perversion of simply trusting Christ.

f.    The Bible teaches all of the above and so must we!

As already stated, above your words betray a curious confession.  I am confident that Christ has paid for my sins, because he has paid for the sins of all mankind.  Yet you seem confident he has paid for yours with uncertainty about all mankind.  Each one must personally receive God’s love to have a changed heart toward God and be saved from our terrible sinful nature.  However, there is no such thing as a personal atonement.  Instead, Christ gave his heart for a whole people, that is all mankind.  Christ did not die for individuals, but Hebrews 10:10 says "once for all".

11)    A few verses that indicate the fact of “assurance of salvation”:

Yes, only believers can have assurance.

a.    Gal. 3:26- “For you are sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”

Yes, only believers are given and receive the title of Sons of God.

b.    Eph. 2:8- “For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.”

Yes, salvation from a corrupted heart and punishment in Hades is realized through faith.  Since the Scripture is clear that God loved us even as enemies apart from faith, we can say that faith played no part in saving us from his eternal wrath, but instead faith is the receiving of the gift already given.

c.    I John 3:2- “Beloved, now we are children of God…”

Yes, only believers are children of God, though God is a prolific adopter!

d.    I John 5:13- “these things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.”

Amen!

12)    Basis of “assurance of salvation”:

a.    witness of God’s word- I John 5:11-13
b.    witness of God the Holy Spirit- Rom. 8:16
c.    witness of the new creation in Christ- II Cor. 5:17

Yes, agreed with all this.

13)    NT verses re: “Hades” (total of eleven; Greek word is “hades”): Matt. 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:24, 27, 31; Rev. 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.

Yes, I think we agree that Hades and the Lake of Fire are not the same place, though you conclude that destiny to the one requires destiny to the other.

14)    NT verses re: “Hell” (total of twelve; Greek word is “geenna”- most pronounce as “gehenna”): Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6

I am not sure if Gehenna and Hades are synonyms.  Hades is definitely a location that houses souls after death.  It is possible that Gehenna, the trash pile, may emphasize the destruction of sin in this life.  I hope to study that further.

15)    What about the following verses?

a.    Romans 11:32- “…that He may show mercy to all.”
i.    “All”- both Jew and Greek
ii.    “All”- “all Israel” (11:26)

You once taught that this verse means that a future generation of Israelites will all be saved.  You are right that the majority of Romans 11 is speaking about the salvation of the Jews.  However, Romans 11:30-31 swings the conversation back to both Jew and Gentile.  Thus Romans 11:32 stands as Paul’s grand conclusion of the entire argument of the book of Romans concerning the redemption of both Jew and Gentile.  My book exegetes this verse.

b.    I Timothy 4:10- “…living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.”

i.    “All men”- Jew  and Greek; male and female; slave and free
ii.    “All”- doesn’t always mean “all in absolute totality” (e.g. “…the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth…” in Eph. 1:10 does not apply to rebellious angels unless one wants to extend universalism to angelic beings as well)

Certainly all does not mean all in every context.  However, the context of grace helps the believer to properly interpret Scripture.  In the case of 1 Timothy 4:10 the Holy Spirit’s use of "especially" is a very curious expression that best fits with my understanding.  Believers are especially saved from sin, though all are saved from damnation!  It makes no sense to say believers are especially saved from damnation while unbelievers are not saved at all.  

c.    I John 2:1-2- “And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.”

i.    “World”- similar to usage in John 3:16
ii.    Christ’s atonement does satisfy the just personal wrath of the thrice holy God regarding the sin of all men; a “satisfaction” which is appropriated through faith

Your understanding as stated above would put you clearly out of even any Calvinist camp.  The work of Christ is apart from any condition provided by man and to state otherwise is to add works to the grace of God.  The work of Christ is completed and finished only for the elect of God.  Though your biggest dispute with me is the scope or extent of election within mankind, I feel that the much greater difference between us is our understanding of Biblical grace and faith.  Though I may misunderstand what you mean by "appropriated."  If you mean "activated" or "made effective," then yes, you have added works to grace.  If you mean "receive grace already given to our account such that our heart is changed toward God, though God's heart is already determined," then we happily agree.

This question needs to be answered first before there is any fruit to be born in discussing the scope of election.  Biblical grace must be understood, swallowed, and digested before anyone will be happy to learn that Christ also loves all mankind as well.  Until the unconditional electing grace of God is received, all efforts to reach God or save one’s self will be the mere religion of man.  It has been said there are only two religions in the whole world, the "do" religion, and the "done" religion.  The "satisfaction" of Christ is a finished work already granted to the elect with no appropriation needed whatsoever.  The heart of God is decided and now he seeks to win the hearts of his lost sheep, Isaiah 30.

d.    Romans 5:12-21

i.    Adam is the federal head of all those who are born (in sin)

Yes.

ii.    Christ is the federal head of all those who are born-again (through faith in Christ)

No.  Rather, the passage says that Christ is the new federal head of all mankind as concluded in Romans 5:18-19.

e.    II Corinthians 5:19- “…God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself…”
i.    If all are reconciled then why the need to “be reconciled” (5:20)

This is a most excellent question!  Perhaps this is the discussion point that God can use to bring us together.  Many have an eastern religion worldview with good and evil pitted against each other like a Yin and Yang and the future in the balance, including the salvation of any particular individual.  However, this is not a Christian worldview.  The Scripture tell us of a God who has determined to show off his grace in the salvation of his particular people.  Through the cross of Christ he accomplished the impossible of maintaining his perfect Holiness, Justice, and Love in the most amazing way.  No device of man could have imagined it or foreseen it.  Furthermore, he increased the odds against himself to further show off his grace decreeing that each of his chosen ones is born opposing him by their birth nature.  He did this so that he can show off his grace, miraculously bringing us to receive his love, one by one.  Every single one of his chosen ones is already reconciled to God through Christ as far as God’s heart and his eternal plans for his redeemed.  Meanwhile our hearts are not reconciled to him until the Holy Spirit works his miracle within each individual, one by one.  Though many religions are in competition with the Holy Spirit, he will not be defeated, nor will he lose one!  We need to be reconciled to God because God has determined to show off his grace in converting his enemies into loving sons.  We are already reconciled to God for his part and there is no escaping his love.  However, until we become a Christian, we are not reconciled to God as far as our heart is concerned.  Sadly most people die physically in unbelief, not having received God’s love.

ii.    If we are the righteousness of God in Christ then why the need to “become the righteousness of God in Him”…(5:21)

As already explained above with Romans 5:10-11 as my proof.

f.    Summation- these verses highlight that:
i.    Salvation is available for all men (with no discrimination- i.e. nationality; gender; social standing; etc.).

Salvation is not a possibility or merely available, but a certainty for the elect.  If salvation is a mere availability, we all are lost.  There is no hope ever!

ii.    Man must believe to enter into this salvation.

Faith is certainly required to be saved from a heart hardened toward God.  However, faith does absolutely nothing to change God’s loving heart toward the elect.  God’s love and grace is unchanging, unconquerable, and unending!

iii.    Believers have the responsibility to appeal to men to be reconciled to God!

I appeal that you would know that God has loved you from before the foundation of the world.  Your blessed eternal destiny is guaranteed apart from all conditions.  Do you deny this election?  Saving faith in Christ is the eye glasses enabling you to see God’s eternal love for you.  We must leave self-righteousness to receive his righteousness.  Be reconciled to God!

 

CONVERSATIONS WORTH NOTING

One of my favorite questions is to ask people whether they think God forgives us before or after we ask.  I believe that Christ has forgiven all mankind without anyone asking, Luke 23:34.  This is the heart of grace.  Grace is not mere theology, but instead history.  Mankind nailed Christ to the cross and while we remained his enemies, Jesus prayed to the Father asking for our forgiveness.  Praise God!  The good news is that we are already forgiven!  Any other answer is simply the religion of man reaching up to God.  I mention all this because in casual conversation, a church attendee asserted that most certainly we are not forgiven before, but only after, we ask for forgiveness.  I was stupefied.  I did not argue, but this is not the gospel of grace that I received or teach.

Two others asked if I compromised truth to accommodate my unbelieving loved ones.  Of course I do have a great concern about the destiny of the unbelieving.  My great hope is that Christ also died for them just as he did for me and it is now impossible for the redeemed to be damned.  Yet, those who reject the grace Christ will be punished in Hades, even if they are our family, friends, enemy, or even our Pastor.

Another insisted that free will, though not taught, is implied by Scripture as the answer to the Calvinism / Arminianism wrangle.  He is right that free will is not taught in Scripture, but quite wrong that it is implied.  Instead, the bondage of the will to sin is plainly taught.  Again I did not argue, but reflected that Biblical teaching is needed on this point to properly give glory to God.  Luther taught that to claim to be saved by free will was an affront to grace and confirmation of one’s unbelief.  Spurgeon also agreed.

Another church attendee suggested that it does not matter if one believes as I, plus what you believe, because then you just have extra insurance.  However, you and I understand that this is not true.  Our understandings not only differ on the scope of election, but even more primarily, we appear to differ on the definition of saving faith.  I would like to understand your view more completely before saying too much because I have not been able to figure out if you are squarely Arminian or Calvinist.  I am neither, but you also disagree with me.  It seems to me that some of your objections compromise the grace of God and add a condition to God’s unconditional love.  You seem to say on one hand that Christ died for the sins of everyone, but in name only.  Then you say he died effectively only for the sins of believers.  I see no Biblical support for the idea that Christ’s death is divided into two categories.  The death of Christ was a single gracious act to give his life as an atoning sacrifice for all His chosen people.  The cross of Christ is a finished work making payment for sins.  One should not say we are saved by the finished work of Christ and then say we need to "appropriate it" or "sign it" or even "believe it" in order for his work to be finally effective.  Christ's work on the cross was completed apart from anything we could possibly add.  I hope to talk with you further to understand your view more fully.

Another suggested that since God only effectively died for a small subset of mankind we really cannot know who these chosen ones are until they come to faith in Christ.  If that is true, then logically there is no way that anyone can say that Christ effectively died for them either.   On what basis could they say it?  On a condition they provide?  On subjective experience?  Feelings?  They could claim to have special revelation beyond the Scriptures that their sins are atoned while also claiming that the sins of a majority of mankind are not atoned.  But the facts from Scripture are simple.  Christ became a man and died a vicarious death on the cross as the new federal head of all mankind.  Why is there resistance to the good news that Christ loves and has effectively paid for the sins of all mankind?  My clarification of the gospel is faithful to Scripture, logically sound, and resonates with God as the benevolent gracious Father that he claims to be.

Another church attendee said if all mankind is saved from the Lake of Fire, then there is no reason for him to stay with his wife or to be good.  Unfortunately his unbelief is exposed as he does not know God as a loving Father, but only as the giant policeman in the sky.

Another also said if all are saved, then why do we invest all this effort in following Christ?  This very question exposes a misunderstanding about grace and the reasons that we pursue Christ.  The question implies that we are saved by what we do.  I guess if we think that God is the giant judge in the sky, then we will also think that our status with him is based on our performance.  If we think that our salvation is conditional, based on a condition that we have to supply, then we will think that our salvation is dependent upon the effort we invest.  However, returning love to God who first loved us is the reason we serve Christ.  We also respect his hand of punishment, but with no fear of damnation.  This same person also claimed that the vast majority of unbelievers think everyone will be saved.  My experience with evangelism is that most unbelievers are like the Jews who think that evil people are eternally damned, but they will be saved because they have met the condition to be good enough.

Recently someone told me that they felt both Arminianism and Calvinism go further than can be Biblically supported.  I feel the same.  Unfortunately, debates between these two camps could be compared to two school bullies fighting about who God loves after both failed an exam about love.  The dubious middle ground between these two camps offers no safe haven either.  I invite you to read my book again and see that there is no compromise between these two systems.  I then invite you to consider that I have reasonably and Biblically answered all your objections above, as well as glorified Christ as the God of all grace.  The cross of Christ has unconditionally purchased eternal salvation for ALL his people and he will not lose one of his chosen, though many will be punished in Hades for their unbelief.

 

OTHER IMPORTANT POINTS WORTH NOTING

1)    Beginning from Genesis 1:1 you will get deep into the Old Testament before there is even a possible reference to eternal damnation.  There is not even one reference in Genesis which brings you to 1,806 BC.  If we assume a creation date of 4,000 BC then 2,194 years of human history passed without one warning about eternal damnation.  That is more than one third of human history!  God did make it clear that a redeemer was coming in Genesis 3:15 to reverse the works of Satan.  God revealed enough that men began to call on his name, Genesis 4:26.  But the silence about eternal damnation seems very strange.  You might argue that since salvation is all of grace, then God is not even obligated to warn the wicked of the great danger before them or even to tell us the means of escape.  However, that does not fit well with the nature of our loving God and his mission to save mankind.  The point is that God himself is not anxious or worried about the eternal destiny of mankind because our destiny lies fully in his hands and not our choices.  He is not on the street selling fire insurance in a panic to change the destinies of men.  Instead our destinies were written from before the foundation of the earth. He does not warn the first third of human history about eternal damnation because human beings can never go to the Lake of Fire.  Praise to Jesus.

2)    I’ve also wondered about your view of the unborn and infants.  Many Christians believe that the unborn and infants are granted salvation apart from faith.  Do you believe this is the case or do you believe people cannot be saved until they make a volitional profession of faith?  If you do believe eternal salvation hangs in the balance for the unborn and infants then having children could be viewed as a form of Russian Roulette with damnation. Why risk it?  Perhaps you believe in an "age of accountability" or a "covenant" to Christian parents, but then you also believe there is salvation apart from faith.  Yet, you object strongly to the idea that there is any salvation from the Lake of Fire apart from a volitional choice of faith in Christ.  The Bible never discusses an "age of accountability" or "covenant" to Christian parents.  However, the gospel proclaims that the sins of all mankind are fully atoned, including the unborn and infants.  Hopefully Christian parents tell their kids the good news!

3)   There is at least a small irony that I agree with Arminians on one point and Calvinists on another point, yet they often divide.  They are united in their opposition to the idea that Christ saves all mankind.  So then is the test of orthodoxy that some human beings must go to the Lake of Fire regardless of the salvation recipe?  Whoa!  Jesus Christ is the God of all grace!

4)    I heard someone say, "God loves you unconditionally, but…"  I heard another say, "Christ died for sinners, but…"  Or again, "It is a free gift, but…"  I laughed, then I cried.  There are no "buts" after grace.  Instead, after our sin, there is “...but God who is rich in mercy!

5)    Evangelical churches boast about the "finished work of Christ."  This is a beautiful phrase.  Yet, I see that it means different things to different people.  I believe that the death of Christ signed the guarantee for every one of his chosen people and it actually is a finished work.  However, you say that grace is not finished until "faith" is added.  Why not, instead, simply trust in God's truly finished work on the cross?

6)    It is short sighted to claim that Christ loves you, while claiming that he did not die for all, or only nominally died for all, or even being uncertain about others.  It is also short sighted to claim to "appropriate" or "apply" the work of Christ to yourself.  The first is an offense to the atonement and the second an offense to grace.

7)    Faith that claims to be the condition for salvation from the Lake of Fire is not Biblical faith resting in the grace of God and resulting in a transformed heart.  Faith defined as a condition to God’s eternal love is a human work that ultimately rejects grace, rejects God’s unconditional love, and cannot save from hypocrisy.  Currently I am reading the book Hope Beyond Hell by Gerry Beauchemin.  His website is www.hopebeyondhell.net.  I was not aware of his book before writing my own, but it is evidence that the message of grace is propelling many to question traditional thoughts about eternal damnation.  Of course his book is simply the word of man, but then again so is tradition.

I am confident that the Lord is at work.  If he happily brings us together again in the future, here is a draft statement of faith that could be a starting point for us.

WE BELIEVE...

  1. In one true God, existing eternally as one God in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, John 14:9-21, who is in essence spirit, John 4:24, light, 1 John 1:5, and love, 1 John 4:8.
  2. That the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments are the unique, inerrant, inspired Word of God in the original autographs, and the final authority in all matters of faith and conduct, 2 Tim 3:16.
  3. In the sovereignty and active rule of God in creation, the fall, history, revelation, miracles, prophecy, redemption, and final judgment, Romans 8:20-21.
  4. That man was created by God in His image, but that since Adam's fall, all men are sinful and by nature deserve God's wrath, Ephesians 2:3.
  5. That Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, fully human and fully divine, eternally existing as God, yet born in time of a virgin, and that He lived a sinless and perfect life, 2 Timothy 2:5.
  6. In the historic death of Jesus as the full and only atonement, guaranteeing loving forgiveness for the sins of all mankind, in His bodily resurrection from the dead, and in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, 1 John 2:1-2.
  7. That all mankind is justified by the loving grace of God and redeemed on the basis of the death of Christ, which is received through faith, Ephesians 2:8-9.
  8. That the Holy Spirit is the effective agent in regeneration, bringing individuals to faith and transformed lives, 2 Corinthians 3:18.
  9. In one universal church, Christ's Body, to which all believers belong, and in particular
    churches accountable to God, led by elders who rule in doctrine and discipline,
    while acknowledging individual conscience, 1 Timothy 5:17, 1 John 2:27.
  10. That believing mankind is rewarded in paradise after death, while unbelievers suffer punishment in Hades after death merited by their sinful nature and their rejection of the grace of Christ, Luke 16:19-31.
  11. In the future, visible, physical return of the Lord Jesus Christ in glory, Titus 2:13.
  12. In the final resurrection of redeemed mankind to the enjoyment of God forever, and the damnation of those excluded from the Book of Life to the Lake of Fire prepared for the Devil and his angels for the ages of the ages, Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:10.

ALTERNATIVELY, CONSIDER A SIMPLE OUTLINE OF CHOICES

This could help me to better understand your beliefs.  Then I could either be persuaded to your understanding or persuade you to my understanding.  Here are six possibilities to consider.

1)    Victorious Gospel
  a.    Christ’s death satisfied the wrath of God for all mankind.
  b.    Believers are saved from sin to paradise, unbelievers are punished in Hades.
  c.    All mankind is saved from the Lake of Fire, prepared for the Devil & his angels.
  d.    This view is faithful to Scripture and faithful to the character of God’s grace.
  e.    Both feet are planted solidly on both the depth and breadth of God’s love.

2)    Calvinism
  a.    Christ’s death satisfied the wrath of God for a subset of mankind.
  b.    The Holy Spirit effectively brings the chosen subset to repentance and faith.
  c.    Those punished in Hades are also damned to the Lake of Fire.
  d.    This view is like the Jews who claimed to be elect while gentiles are not elect.
  e.    One foot is planted on the depth of God’s love, but the other foot on hypocrisy.

3)    Arminianism
  a.    Christ’s death potentially satisfies the wrath of God for all mankind.
  b.    Individual people exercise their free will to accept Christ and then are saved.
  c.    Those punished in Hades are also damned to the Lake of Fire.
  d.    This view reminds me of the graceless religions of the gentile world.
  e.    One foot is planted on the breadth of God’s love, the other on human condition.

4)    Mediation
  a.    Christ’s death satisfies God's wrath effectively for some, nominally for the rest.
  b.    Two mediating methods
    i.    The Holy Spirit effectively brings the chosen subset to repentance and faith.
    ii.    Individual people exercise their free will to accept Christ and then are saved.
  c.    Those punished in Hades are also damned to the Lake of Fire.
  d.    This view is really Calvinism or Arminianism in disguise or double mindedness.

5)    Simple faith and the Victorious Gospel is wrong
  a.    Simple faith that all people are sinners and Christ died for sinners.
  b.    Sinners are invited to trust Christ, but avoid debate and theology.
  c.    The Victorious Gospel is wrong because unbelievers are certainly damned.
  d.    This view is unfair to call the Victorious Gospel wrong without Scripture.
  e.    One foot appears to be planted on God’s love, but the other on tradition.

6)    Simple faith and the Victorious Gospel may be right
  a.    Simple faith that all people are sinners and Christ died for sinners.
  b.    Sinners are invited to trust Christ, but with ignorance of the extent of God’s love.
  c.    The Victorious Gospel sounds hopeful, and they may want to learn more.
  d.    This view appears interested in Scripture and grace more than tradition.
  e.    One foot appears to be planted on grace, but no certainty of who God loves.

WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE? 

I have been admonished to argue no further.  So I will break fellowship with Arminianism and Calvinism in pursuit of Christ.  Perhaps, openness about these differences will allow us to discuss God’s grace more openly in the future.  I would enjoy that very much.

Is "Free-Will" Faith Saving Faith?

And now I ask myself another hard question...

SELF>> Is "free will" faith saving faith?

ME>> I have consistently italicized the expression free will throughout my entire book.  You may have guessed that I have no faith in our free will.  I have written at length about the idea in my article, A Quintessential Defense of Free Will.  Now the big remaining question: is the gospel at odds with the idea of free will?  If someone claims to have effected their salvation from the Lake of Fire through their free will choice of faith, does that qualify as saving faith?  Will this "free will faith" transform their hearts from self-righteousness as well?

Historically Calvinists have differed in their answer to this question.  Consider two extremes from respected theologians in the past.  Cornelius Van Til, a respected Reformed theologian, maintained a very accommodating view that Arminian Christians ought to be welcomed as brothers even though he had a radically different understanding of grace than they.  He was quoted as saying, "Arminians are good Christians and better-behaved Christians than many a Calvinist."  Though, Van Til was not consistent in his accommodation.  Read about Van Til here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Van_Til.  However, Augustus Montague Toplady, an Anglican cleric and writer of the hymn, Rock of Ages, was a major Calvinist opponent of John Wesley's Arminian faith.  Though Wesley is also respected by Christendom for his contribution of many hymns in our hymnals today, his free will understanding of salvation was rejected as thoroughly anti-gospel by Toplady.  Read about Toplady here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Toplady.  

So what is a Christ-like view of this?  Let me offer my opinion with four propositions.

1.

No doubt the big concern that established orthodoxies have with my happy thought that Jesus is the savior of all mankind is ultimately that they do not believe he is the effective savior of all mankind, though each for different reasons.  Perhaps, their concern is that I might cause people to miss their true salvation recipe.  However, I propose that the biggest problem is a step before answering the question about the extent of salvation.  There is a much bigger concern than answering the question of the percentage of humans beings actually saved by Christ.  Ultimately God himself will determine the extent of his grace.

Yet each of us will individually give account to the Lord and the real concern for each of us is answering the question, what constitutes saving faith for even one person in the first place?  What is the essence of saving faith?  Religious people of all persuasions agree that one might profess faith, but what really matters is to possess faith.  If we understand the wrath of God against sin, we must be zealous to possess saving faith to be ready stand before the judge, Jesus Christ.

2.

We can see why common religious models reduce the focus of Christian salvation to rescuing human beings from eternity in the Lake of Fire.  We want to avoid eternal suffering!  We may not be so concerned about the sin in our character that we have become so comfortable with, but we do want eternal bliss.  So what salvation recipes can we pick from?

Arminians view the salvation of each individual as "in the balance" and yet to be determined by each individual's free will choice of faith and obedience.  Limited atonement Calvinists view salvation as certain for the chosen few, but they say we cannot know who the chosen ones are until particular individuals are persuaded to have "faith" that Christ died for them.  The reason they cannot know who is chosen is because they also believe that Christ did not make payment for the sins of all mankind, but only some.  Therefore, their elect are an invisible subset not indicated with any observable sign so they cannot know who they are.  Regardless, the common focus of both of these models is the provision of fire insurance.

I propose instead that the focus of the Great Commission is NOT selling fire insurance, but the radical transformation of the individual from self-righteous pride and hypocrisy to Christ-like humility and service, that is salvation from sin.  The gospel declares that God has already paid for all the sins of all mankind and commands us to repent and believe it.  The fate of the elect is already guaranteed and written in the Lamb's Book of Life from eternity past, Ephesians 1.  No one's eternal destiny is "in the balance," but only in the hands of Christ.  Faith in Christ is not a pen to write your own name there, but instead the eye glasses to see your name already written there by Christ.  Jesus has made the ground level at the foot of his cross for all humanity.

Our Heavenly Father's purpose is to demonstrate his grace, having forgiven the sins of all mankind -- both the believing and the unbelieving.  This understanding empties faith of all works and removes all conditions from grace so that the praise goes to Christ alone for the salvation of His people.  Faith cannot add anyone's name to the Lamb's Book of Life, but only open our eyes to the fact.  The point is that we are saved by grace which is received through faith.  Faith does not effect our salvation from eternal fire, but it does effect a change in our self-righteous hearts.

Anyone who agrees with the Biblical doctrine of predestination must also agree that the names in the Lamb's Book of Life are a definite list of people already determined and penned from before the foundation of the world.  Believers are those who simply trust that their name is there through faith in Christ.  Unbelievers then are those who reject their election, such as Esau.  Those who die without faith will be punished in Hades, even though their sins are completely paid.

These wicked unbelievers maintain their own self-righteous distinction from the remainder of sinful humanity and reject the precious blood of Christ, no matter how religious they may appear.  Thus they will not escape punishment in the afterlife for their crimes against Christ.  They reject their own election, yet even so I believe that their election by grace will not fail to extract them from Hades and finally save them from the Lake of Fire in the end as I have already fully explained, Romans 11:28.

You might ask why I would bother to jeopardize my respected position in religious circles to insist this point.  As a Christian, I have been entrusted with an understanding that I am saved by grace alone and seek to be faithful to the message that the only difference between me and the unbelieving is that I believe our sins are already paid for and forgiven while they do not believe it.  The point is that God hates religion!  Why not quit "playing church" and be my Christian brother?

3.

In light of these facts, do the Arminian Christian and the Limited atonement Calvinist possess saving faith?  If predestination has already guaranteed salvation from the Lake of Fire for the elect apart from works, then the only question remaining is: are the Arminian Christian and the Limited atonement Calvinist saved from the sin of self-righteousness and saved from punishment in Hades?  Have they received the grace that exterminates self-righteousness?  Or will they join the unbelieving and be punished in Hades for holding to "forms of religion" that miss the real deal?

It seems clear from the New Testament that all that is required is simple repentant faith in Christ to be saved.   So a true Christian might sport any label provided that his heart is bowed before Jesus.  Grace must allow for the fact that the heart can be true while the head is still confused.

Yet the New Testament also places a knife edge along the line of salvation by grace which IS saving and salvation by works which IS NOT saving.  Those who reject their election and the grace of God in favor of straw will be punished for the duration in Hades.

Again, God hates religion!  As such, the Arminian Christian cannot answer the question as to why they chose Christ and others did not without suggesting a work of man such as their free will choice of faith.  Their definition of "faith" is NOT simple trust in the finished work of Christ for all His people, but instead it is a "faith" loaded with works that supplant grace as the condition of salvation.  Their faith / work plus the supposed "general" offer of salvation to all mankind is their hope.  How can their heads be bowed maintaining this view?  Their theology openly confesses that they themselves made the difference in their salvation and not the precious grace of Christ.  They are rejecting the grace of God in favor of religion.  We are warned that Hades is a fit punishment for those who reject grace.

Perhaps the Limited atonement Calvinist definition of "faith" passes the bar.  Limited atonement Calvinists are persuaded to have "faith" that Christ died for them, while they also believe that Christ did not die for all.  They suggest that we cannot know who the elect are until specific individuals place faith in Christ.  Stop. Read that sentence again a couple times.  Ultimately by their own confession these people are logically saying that they cannot have confident knowledge that they are elect, either.  What special revelation, in addition to the Scriptures, do they have to confidently claim that Christ paid for their sins and did not pay for the sins of others?  Christian faith is rooted in the truth of Scripture and historic fact that Christ became a man and vicariously atoned for the sins of ALL mankind through his substitutionary death.  Assurance must stand on this objective fact and nothing else.  Calvinist "faith" is not faith built on the rock of Jesus Christ, but built on a hypocritical self-deception.  Again, we are warned that Hades is a fit punishment for those who reject grace.

4.

Yet there is such a thing as a good Calvinist.  I once shared my view of Christian faith with a friend.  I explained that true faith is merely receiving what Christ has already finished for His people.  True faith does not change God's heart toward us, but radically changes our heart toward God.  He then said the terrible thing about my view is that everyone who believes it eventually concludes that all mankind is saved from the Lake of Fire.  I've never received a better compliment in my entire life!  So I'll take the label of a good Calvinist because I also believe that the atonement is "limited."  Jesus' love is limited to all mankind, but he has not atoned for the sin of fallen angels who will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

My last proposition is that those who are born again, have truly received grace, and possess true faith must not maintain ambivalence or objection to the idea that Christ paid for the sins all mankind.  Friends, mankind's salvation is also the salvation of each individual, Romans 11:16.  Join me and happily embrace the salvation of all God's people!

If the first fruit is holy, so is the lump. If the root is holy, so are the branches.

Romans 11:16 (WEB)


Will you reject your election by grace to salvation in favor of religion and conditional salvation?  Why not laugh and rejoice trusting that your sins are already forgiven as well as the sins of all mankind?

Is Revelation 21-22 About The Church, The Last Age, or Eternity?

SOME>> Is Revelation 21-22 about The Church, The Last Age, or Eternity?

ME>> Excellent question.  Revelation 21 begins,

1) I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth have passed away, and the sea is no more. 2) I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband. 3) I heard a loud voice out of heaven saying, "Behold, God's dwelling is with people, and he will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4) He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away."

5) He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." He said, "Write, for these words of God are faithful and true." 6) He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give freely to him who is thirsty from the spring of the water of life. 7) He who overcomes, I will give him these things. I will be his God, and he will be my son. 8) But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Revelation 21:1-8 (WEB)


Most Christians understand this Scripture as the commencement of eternity after the final judgment.  However, some Universalist Christians understand Revelation 21-22 as instead the final age or eon before eternity.  Others from a Full Preterist viewpoint even understand these chapters to be about the New Covenant Church and not about either final judgment or eternity.

Full Preterists have concluded that all Old and New Testament prophecy is already completely fulfilled.  The term Preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning "past."  Thankfully Preterists have observed that there are New Testament prophecies concerning the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. that are in fact past.  Unfortunately Full Preterists have gone too far in concluding that all prophecy is fulfilled including the return of Christ and the resurrection.  They miss the "blessed hope" and promise of Christ in Acts 1:11, John 14:3, and Titus 2:13.  Thus they interpret the images in Revelation 21-22 as only about the Church during the present New Covenant Age.

Alternatively some Universalist Christians understand Revelation 21-22 not as the beginning of eternity, but instead as the final age of purification for mankind, after which salvation is then realized.  The final judgment described in Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15 is understood by some to sentence unbelieving mankind to the second death in the Lake of Fire.  Yet, since 1 Corinthians 15:55 promises the end of death they conclude that there is also salvation from the second death.  Thus if human beings are sentenced to the Lake of Fire, the common Universalist position must find proof that they are safely extracted from the Lake of Fire later.  To accomplish this they consider Revelation 21-22 as a chronological account of an age beyond the Church Age.  Revelation 22:12-17 (WEB) is then understood as further appeal for repentance after the Great White Throne Judgment to those suffering in the Lake of Fire.

12) "Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. 13) I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14) Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. 15) Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16) I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David; the Bright and Morning Star."

17) The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" He who hears, let him say, "Come!" He who is thirsty, let him come. He who desires, let him take the water of life freely.


This common Universalist understanding seems strained to me.  First, there is not one other Scripture that suggests an age of fallen existence beyond the Church Age.  Instead Revelation 21-22 paints a summary picture of both our glorious eternity when every tear is wiped away and our present glorious church.  Thus, I join most Christians in understanding the Bible's final chapters to speak about the commencement of eternity after the Great White Throne Judgment.  Consider, I Corinthians 15:55 (WEB) says "Death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?"  Paul is forecasting the end of Hades and death as also recorded in Revelation 20:14 and 21:4.  This is the promise of the end of death and the end of punishment in Hades for mankind!  However, there is no mention of the end of the second death for those not listed in the Book of Life.

So how then can I hold to the universal salvation of all mankind?  What is missed by traditional Christians and also by many Universalist Christians is that the Lake of Fire is not prepared for mankind, but is prepared for the Devil and his angels as indicated in Matthew 25:41.  Fallen angels are held for judgment, extracted from Tartarus / Thalassa, and are also present on that Great Day as shown in 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6, and Revelation 20:13.  The fallen angels are the goats on Jesus' left, not mankind!

Thus I agree with those who see elements of the New Covenant Church in the images of Revelation 21-22.  The angel says to John, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb!" (Revelation 21:9 WEB).  The angel also shows John the river of the water of life and the tree of life which is for "the healing of the nations" (Revelation 22:2).  These things appear to be a picture of the Church and healing grace during the Church age.  What healing would be needed in glory?  Yet, the New Heavens and New Earth also promise in Revelation 21:4 (WEB),

He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away.


And I also agree that Revelation 21-22 explains our glorious eternity when every tear is wiped away.  Yet, we do not need to look too far to see that tears are not yet wiped away. The Old Covenant has passed away, but the effects of the fall still remain.  We are too often faced with the painful realities of death, mourning, crying, and pain.  The final chapters of Revelation give us both hope and help.  The description of eternal glory with every tear wiped away gives us hope, Revelation 21:4.  The description of the New Covenant church also gives us help until Jesus returns, Revelation 22:7-21.  God's Word concludes with hope for the now and the not yet, but soon.  The end of Old Covenant Jerusalem and the birth of the New Covenant Jerusalem, the Church, brings hope now beginning in the first century.  The victory of Christ reigning in every situation brings hope now to Christians of any time period.  The promise of glory in the New Heavens and New Earth in Christ's presence when every tear is finally wiped away brings hope for the not yet, but Christ is coming soon.

Jesus himself introduces the Revelation of the past, present, and future saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty," (Revelation 1:8 WEB).

Maranatha!

Isaiah 65:25 says that even Satan will be restored

Another objected...

Reader>  [You originally said that Satan and his angels are eternally damned. However consider] Isaiah 65:25, 11:6-10. There are several other scriptural passages indicating God will bring even the ultra-rebel dragon back into loyalty, too.

Me> Let's consider those passages.

Isaiah 65:25 (WEB),

'The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. Dust will be the serpent’s food. They will not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain,' says Yahweh.


The emphasis of this verse seems to be that in the future God's people will be completely safe from all harm.  On that we are agreed.  However, does the verse promise happiness for the serpent?  The Hebrew word for dust, [aphar], can also be translated "garbage."  So what is in view here?  Is this a happy restoration for the serpent or a humiliating defeat with his mouth full of garbage?

Isaiah 11:6-10 (WEB),

6) The wolf will live with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the young goat; The calf, the young lion, and the fattened calf together; and a little child will lead them. 7) The cow and the bear will graze. Their young ones will lie down together. The lion will eat straw like the ox. 8) The nursing child will play near a cobra’s hole, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper’s den. 9) They will not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth will be full of the knowledge of Yahweh, as the waters cover the sea. 10) It will happen in that day that the nations will seek the root of Jesse, who stands as a banner of the peoples; and his resting place will be glorious.


Again here is the promise of complete peace in all God's creation, to the degree that vipers are no longer a danger, even for infants.  So is this verse simply speaking about vipers or is Satan also in view?  The mention of "den" and "nest" suggest that Isaiah is simply talking about vipers in the animal Kingdom rather than Satan himself.

The focus of my studies for the Optimism Out of Control book was and still is God's victorious grace for all mankind, created in God's image, and redeemed at the cross.  The observation that the Lake of Fire is prepared for the Devil and his angels, and not prepared for mankind has also been an important point in my arguments.  This understanding is critical to understand who is in fact actually sentenced to the Lake of Fire at the Matthew 25:41 Sheep and Goat Judgment.

However, after entering the larger discussion about the extent of God's grace in all creation, I was surprised to learn about the debate over the salvation of Satan himself.  Thus I have pursued further study below.  As for using Isaiah 11:6-10 and 65:25 for proof that even Satan himself will be saved, it seems like an awkward stretch to me.  Depending on these verses to make such a case may do more harm than good concerning the main point.  Such a stretched argument may undermine the credibility of the essential point: that Christ is the effective savior of mankind.  Christ is explicitly victorious in the redemption of all mankind at the cross, but Isaiah 65:25 certainly is not explicit about Satan.

Please consider these related articles on my website:

Revelation 20:10

Fallen Angels at The Great White Throne Judgment?

How Can You Say Revelation 21:8 Does Not Apply to Humans?

You are Wrong About Matthew 25:31-46!

Hope in Jesus

For myself, with bold humility I say that Christ must finally save all mankind because he has already proven his intent to do just that at the cross.  Actually it is not me saying it, but Christ has committed himself already and proclaimed the good news himself from the cross.  Furthermore, he commands us to believe it and give our lives to telling others the good news!  This good news is so certain that the main thing that gets him angry now is if we do not believe it and live accordingly.

As for Satan and his angels, I am also certain from God's word that they are sentenced to the Lake of Fire, which is prepared for them for The Ages of The Ages, that is the "The Aion of The Aion," Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:10.  Can the grace of God bring an end to Satan's damnation for The Ages of The Ages?  Certainly!  Will he?  I do not know.

Isaiah 66:22-24 Cannot Include Fallen Angels

Another reader says...

READER>> You mention the end of Isaiah 66 -- this is the verse Christ quotes in Mark 9 / Matt 18 (and earlier in Matt 5’s parallel warning if I recall correctly) involving Gehenna. So now you can have fun deciding whether this applies to the Lake of Fire judgment or not after all. ;) But from Isaiah’s own perspective it applies to humans being slain at the coming of YHWH and the survivors being appalled by it; there’s a parallel scene in Ezekiel or Jeremiah... where God gives instructions on how the survivors will have to send teams out for years to properly collect and bury and / or burn the dead, and how even after that’s done some people will be assigned to check for remaining bones and flag them for proper removal and burial later. Isaiah doesn’t go into anything like that detail, but he’s quite explicit about them being the corpses of men (iysh) who transgressed against God.

ME>> Let's look at these passages more closely.

Isaiah 66:22-24 (WEB),

22) "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me," says Yahweh, "so your offspring and your name shall remain. 23) It shall happen that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh will come to worship before me," says Yahweh. 24) "They will go out, and look at the dead bodies of the men [enowsh] who have transgressed against me; for their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."


You note that the Hebrew word "enowsh" is used to describe those who rebelled.  "Enowsh" means man, mankind, or mortal man, so at first glance it would seem that this passage could not be referring to the destruction of fallen angels.  So what event is then in view?

The reader above believes that this passage explains the corrective hand of Christ upon his human enemies at his pre-Millennial return.  The reader also apparently believes that this event is synonymous with Ezekiel 39.  Is that the case?  Ezekiel 39 does mention God judgments, but his presence in the flesh is not explicit.  Ezekiel does not mention the New Heavens and Earth and thus also seems to point to earlier events.

It should be noted that the Hebrew word "enowsh" was also used to refer to the angels who visited Abraham in Genesis 18.  So apparently the word does not always mean mortal man, but can also mean embodied angels. So it would not break any rules of interpretation to apply it to fallen angels in Isaiah 66:24.

Furthermore, Isaiah 65 and 66 is one of the few places the Old Testament explicitly references the New Heavens and the New Earth.  So the New Testament parallel event seems to be Revelation 20 and 21 just before the commencement of eternity.  I have proposed that Daniel 12:1-4, Matthew 25:31-46, and Revelation 20:11-15 are all talking about the same event: the final verdict for both mankind and fallen angels.  Isaiah 66:22-24 seems to point to the same event with Satan and his demons' final rebellion against God and mankind.  Satan and the demons meet their certain defeat, while all mankind looks upon the carcasses of the rebel angels with loathe, Revelation 20:7-10.  Now it also seems clear that Satan does tempt humankind into battle against the camp of God at that time.  However, this does not require that those humans who join the final rebellion with Satan are then finally lost to the Lake of Fire.  I still hold that Satan and his demons receive the sentence to the Lake of Fire which is prepared for them while mankind, even unbelieving mankind, receive grace -- solely on the basis of Christ's vicarious atonement.  Finally, I have proved in my article, You are Wrong About Matthew 25:31-46!, that the "ethnos" gathered before Christ at the final judgment includes both humans and fallen angels, Matthew 25:32 and Revelation 20:13.  It is no coincidence that Revelation 20:8 says that when Satan is released he will gather the "ethnos" for battle against God's people.  Satan will round up both his demons and unbelieving mankind who so easily serve as his pawns.

It was objected that Mark 9:42-50 uses the same expression "their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched" as found in Isaiah 66:24.

Mark 9:47-50 (WEB),

47) If your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It is better for you to enter into God’s Kingdom with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire, 48)  'where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.' 49)  For everyone will be salted with fire, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt. 50) Salt is good, but if the salt has lost its saltiness, with what will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.


Mark 9 certainly is not a warning to demons, but to unbelieving humans. There are several possibilities.  One possibility is that I am wrong about Isaiah 66 and that the prophet is speaking only about the punishment of wicked human beings.  In this case perhaps Isaiah is writing about earlier events.  However, the New Heavens and Earth language seems to point to the final battle just before the Great White Throne judgment.  In either case, understanding "enowsh" to mean only wicked human beings does not necessarily undermine my primary thesis that all mankind will be finally saved.  Though, my proposed model of understanding would need to be refactored.

Another possibility is that in Mark 9 Jesus is comparing the punishments of human beings in Hades with the even more severe punishments reserved for fallen angels in the Lake of Fire.  Jesus may use the same language, "their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched," because the punishments are similar, even though Hades is temporal.

Finally, Jesus may simply allow wicked unbelieving mankind to fear the judgment that will come upon the fallen angels, the non-elect, even though all mankind will be finally saved from the judgment reserved only for fallen angels in the Lake of Fire. This pattern is evident a number of places in Scripture.  It is more than reasonable to let those who reject Christ's atonement think they have the destiny of the unredeemed.  In fact it is the best wakeup call possible for the hardhearted unbelieving elect.

Regarding the salvation of fallen angels, I had proposed that Satan, The Beast, and the False Prophet are all fallen angels.  These three beings are the only people explicitly mentioned by name as being thrown into the Lake of Fire. I have written further about this thesis in my article, Revelation 20:10.  The same reader above also objected, saying that The Beast and The False Prophet are human.  However, after reading Revelation again I stumbled upon verse Revelation 16:13.  This verse communicates that these three beings share of common nature of being the SOURCE of evil spirits and the spirit of demons.  Humans are not the source of the demonic, but instead humans are attacked and possessed by the demonic.  This seems like further evidence that these three beings are the demonic leaders of the rebellion against God with Satan as their ring leader.

I also finished reading Terms for Eternity: Aionios and Aidios in Classical and Christian Texts by Ilaria Ramelli and David Konstan.  They defend that "aion" means "age" or "eon" as many would agree.  However, they also note that the definitive Greek word for eternal, "aidios," is only used twice the Bible: once in Romans 1:20 concerning God and once in Jude 6 concerning the bonds on fallen angels.  Since Ramelli and Konstan argue even for the salvation of Satan they conclude that "aidios" in Jude 6 must mean transcending the ages, but not finally eternal.  They reason thus because these demons are being "held for judgment" so there must be an end to these "aidios" bonds after their judgment.  However, it could also be that these demons with "aidios" bonds are held in Thalaasa to be extracted for sentencing at the Great White Throne Judgment and then with the "aidios" bonds still on they are cast into the Lake of Fire.  Thus they are held for judgment, but the "aidios" bonds are not released as they are cast into the Lake of Fire.  Further, if the Sheep and Goat Judgment is synonymous with the Great White Throne Judgment and with the Great Judgment Day for the imprisoned angels, then it is clear that the goats are held for judgment and further sentenced to the Lake of Fire after their extraction from Tartarus / Thalassa.  So the "aidios" bonds of fallen angels do not end at the Great Day of their judgment, but continue on through The Ages of The Ages in the Lake of Fire.

That all said, I want to do further study concerning the Biblical arguments for an "apokatastasis" that could include the salvation of even the fallen angels sentenced to the Lake of Fire.  Can anyone point me to further resources on the meaning of "kolasis" from Matthew 25:46?  Some resources indicate "punishment, torment, etc."  However, I know others have argued that the word only means loving correction or correction with a goal to restoration.  Actually the only other Biblical use in 1 John 4:18 does not mean loving correction, but merely the fruit of fear, that is torment.  Perhaps the arguments for the meaning of "kolasis" as only corrective punishment are stretched because of the conclusion that human beings are sent to "aion kolasis."  If we think human beings are sent to the Lake of Fire, but hope they are later saved, then we need to understand "kolasis" as corrective.  However, if the goats on Jesus' left are fallen angels only, then the puzzle pieces fit together more easily.

Thanks for the comment above.  After reflection, I continue to hold that the Lake of Fire is prepared only for the Devil and his angels.  However, I may be agnostic about the duration of the torment to be endured in the Lake of Fire by the Devil and his angels.  The Scriptures obviously begin with rebellious Satan tempting mankind into the fall and end with all mankind redeemed with every tear wiped away and Satan and his angels in torment in the Lake of Fire.  Revelation 20:10 says Satan will be sentenced to the Lake of Fire for "The Aions of The Aions."  So when is the end of "The Aions of The Aions?"  If there is an end to Satan's damnation it is after the last page of Scripture.

John 3:36 Offers No Optimism!

Another thoughtful doubter suggested...

ANOTHER>> John 3:36 offers no optimism, so you are in error to suggest otherwise.  Furthermore, you err in thinking that sinful man does not deserve the wrath of God.  The Bible never indicates that the wrath of God will be abated for unbelievers.

ME>> That is an excellent point of discussion. John 3:36 (WEB) says,

One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won’t see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.


Let me first point out a couple of observations, then conclude with a couple of questions back to you.  First, is this verse saying that unbelievers will not be granted eternal life because of their unbelief, or is this verse saying that unbelievers simply cannot see eternal life because of their refusal to accept forgiveness?  No doubt you say the former, while I say the latter.  Note that in defense of my understanding the verse says, "won't see life."  Secondly, consider a few observations.

Certainly you must agree that God loves the unbelieving elect before they place faith in Him.  Thus faith has no transactional impact on our election.  Faith changes our heart toward God, but not God's heart toward his chosen.  If we agree that this is true, then this verse must be understood to mean that the unbelieving elect cannot see God's love for them, even though it is already guaranteed.  After all no one is born believing.  Romans 5:10 and I John 4:10 explain this concept well.  So even if we disagree on the extent of election within mankind, we must still agree that the unbelieving elect move from a point of NOT SEEING their promised destiny, to SEEING their promised destiny when they trust Christ.  Since transforming faith is the subject of John Chapter 3, that can be the only meaning of "won’t see life" in John 3:36.

You might argue that earlier in Chapter 3 Jesus says that unbelievers are "condemned already."  So you might say that faith moves a person from a place of condemnation to a place of forgiveness.  Yet elsewhere we see that sinful man's reconciliation to God has happened even before repentance and faith, Romans 5:10.  So how are we to understand the unbeliever's status of condemnation?  John 3:17 and Romans 8:34 make it clear that Jesus has no condemnation for his chosen people -- not ever.  Therefore, the condemnation of the unbelieving elect is a condemnation of their unbelief or a condemnation of their unregenerate nature, but certainly not an eternal condemnation.  Ephesians 2:3 explains that we as unbelievers were objects of wrath, "because of our nature."  However, the elect were never even potentially objects of eternal wrath, even during our unbelief.  Of course this is not because we didn't deserve eternal wrath, but because of God's grace.

Matthew 13:11-17 quotes Isaiah, making the point that not all of God's chosen people are also chosen to see and believe.  So these unbelieving elect cannot see life.  They cannot see God's love.  They cannot see God's grace.  These lost sheep continue to reject God's grace and reject that their sins are already forgiven and instead turn to religion in an effort to add to the finished work of Christ through some action, work, or choice of their own.  God is quite angry with this unbelief and his anger toward their rebellion will continue if they do not repent, even though he loves them dearly.

You say that the wrath of God is never abated for unbelievers.  I agree that the eternal wrath of God is never abated or even offered to the non-elect, however, the eternal wrath of God is already propitiated for both the believing and the unbelieving elect.  This is the very meaning of I John 2:2.  Romans 3:3-4 also makes it clear that God's faithful salvation of his chosen people is not conditioned on our faith.  These verses make it clear that Christ has chosen to pay for the sins of all mankind, period.  Of course faith certainly changes our heart toward God.  However, God's loving heart towards his chosen people is resolute whether we are in belief or unbelief.

Paul's concluding argument in Romans 11 also makes it clear that God's gifts and call are irrevocable and so will prove effective even for the unbelieving elect.  Now to clarify, this does not rule out that God is angry with the disobedience of the unbelieving elect.  These rebels certainly do not see life while they persist in unbelief and they will be punished in Hades unless they repent.  In fact Hades is a fit punishment for their self-righteous unregenerate natures.  However, because of election, God's wrath toward them does not conclude with the Lake of Fire.  Just like Romans 11:28 beautifully explains, they are enemies on account of their rejection of the gospel, but loved on account of election.

You might also point out that Revelation 21:8 specifically says that the vile and the unbelieving will be consigned to the Lake of Fire.  However, I will check-mate with the thought that eternal damnation can only apply to the non-elect.  This is easily proved because you and I are still both vile sinners even as Christians, yet our hope is that our sinful selves are hidden safely in Christ with all the rest of the elect.  Even Christians are guilty of the sins listed in Revelation 21:8 and yet we and all mankind will be spared from the Lake of Fire because Jesus has chosen to pay for our sin.  The sin of the non-elect, fallen angels, however, is apparently not paid for by the sacrifice of Christ, according to Hebrews 2:16.  Therefore the Lake of Fire is their certain destiny.

So you are right that John 3:36 offers no optimism... for the unbelieving.  You can tell the unbelieving elect directly that God has already forgiven them until you are blue in the face and they will continue to disbelieve and labor to somehow activate their salvation.  John 3:36 is a simple statement of fact to these unbelieving.  As long as they continue to prefer disbelief and religion they will not be able to see their destiny as God's elect.  That is, they will not see their promised, guaranteed destiny until the Holy Spirit opens their eyes.

Unfortunately, some who profess Christ often sing the hymn, "There is a new name written in Heaven and its mine."  These misguided people imagine that they somehow met the condition for salvation through some work of their own.  However, the grace of God is unconditionally given to all his people.  They miss the great joy of trusting Christ and knowing that our names were written in Heaven from before the foundation of the world!  There are absolutely no new names in Heaven, but instead only the names penned with God's burning love from before the creation of the world.  Yet many religious people still contrive alternate confidences for themselves without the rock of Christ as a foundation.

Hitting closer to home, you suggest that I err in thinking that sinful man does not deserve the wrath of God.  Au Contraire!  I wholeheartedly believe that sinful man deserves the eternal wrath of God.  In fact I believe this more than you do.  I would even suggest that you offend grace by saying that the death of Christ is insufficient to propitiate the wrath of God without personal faith added to sign the transaction.  Christ alone is the only sufficient sacrifice to satisfy the justice of God and propitiate his holy wrath.  The transaction for our salvation was a deal signed between the Father and the Son alone.  Faith adds absolutely no transactional value to Christ's work.  The death of Christ completely signs, seals, and delivers salvation to every single one of his chosen people.  Thus evangelism is an invitation for the elect to believe this good news!  Faith is simply the reception of this gift, already given, which happens only if the Holy Spirit softens our hardened hearts and opens our blind eyes.

Here is a good question for both you and me.  Do we agree that even the sin we committed today is enough to damn us if we were outside of Christ?  Do we also agree that even the continuing faith of a believer is insufficient to appease God's wrath?  So when we distrust and disobey God as Christians, do we then get confidence by reminding God that we do in fact trust him and that he should continue to accept our faith (or lack of faith)?  Or instead, do we remind ourselves that Christ died for the sin we commit even as Christians and continue to thank him for his finished work and promise to us?  True and saving faith must be built on the solid rock of Jesus Christ and his finished work alone.  This finished work is salvation already guaranteed for each of his chosen ones.  The believing take great joy in this optimistic gospel!  Unbelievers, however, remain under God's wrath and will continue to reject their election in favor of their religion... and thus cannot see life.

John 5:28-30 Offers No Optimism!

AGAIN>> John 5:28-30 also offers no optimism, so you are still in error.

ME>> That is another excellent point of discussion. John 5:28-30 (WEB) says,

28) Don’t marvel at this, for the hour comes in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice, 29)  and will come out; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. 30)  I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous; because I don’t seek my own will, but the will of my Father who sent me.


The first questions we need to ask of this Scripture is when is this judgment, who is being judged, and what is the duration of the judgment?  We agree that judgment is certain, but what is the nature of the judgment?  Traditional theology concludes that only the judgment of human beings is in view.

It may take you time to study and time to reconsider, yet I hope that this book has at least introduced you to three very important concepts.  First, the Hebrew "olam" and Greek "aion" are best interpreted as "age" or the "life" of the noun in view.  Thus, we see that God is working out his plan of redemption through the "ages," and not merely in one epoch.  Thus the judgment of John 5 could point to a number of points in the future.  Second, when interpreting passages about judgment we need to consider that fallen angels may be in view just as much as unbelieving men.  John 16:11 and the judgment of Satan is a reminder of that important point.  Jude 6 also reminds us that fallen angels are being held for judgment on that "Great Day."  Third, since "aion" usually does not mean eternal except when referring to God and perhaps the Lake of Fire, we must consider that at least some of the after death judgments are not eternal, for example the punishments of Hades.

That said, I think this passage is speaking about the Sheep and the Goat judgment, synonymous with Great White Throne Judgment.  This final judgment will save the remainder of mankind just extracted from Hades and condemn demons to the Lake of Fire for The Ages of The Ages.  This seems clear because a resurrection to both death and life is in view.  It is important to note that the confirmation of the salvation of the believing elect has already happened for Christians through faith and at the Rapture!  So if there are both saved and unsaved at the Great White Throne Judgment, who else would it be except the confirmation of the salvation of the unbelieving elect and the damnation of the non-elect fallen angels?

Not Written in the Book of Life from Creation?

SOME>> Wait!  Some are not written in the Book of Life from the creation of the world!

ME>> Good point.  Consider Revelation's mention of the Book of Life.

He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:5 (WEB)

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been killed.

Revelation 13:8 (WEB)

The beast that you saw was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go into destruction. Those who dwell on the earth and whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel when they see that the beast was, and is not, and shall be present.

Revelation 17:8 (WEB)

I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:12 (WEB)

If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:15 (WEB)

There will in no way enter into it anything profane, or one who causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 21:27 (WEB)

If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, may God take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

Revelation 22:19 (WEB)

 

These Scriptures could lead one to believe that one's name could be blotted out of the Book of Life and thus eternally damned... that is if one does not consider grace and Christ's strategies with the hardhearted.

Consider one of the earliest mentions of the Book of Life with Moses.

31) Moses returned to Yahweh, and said, "Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made themselves gods of gold. 32) Yet now, if you will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out of your book which you have written."

33) Yahweh said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Exodus 32:31-33 (WEB)

 

King David also sang about the Book of Life in Psalm 69:28 (WEB),

Let them be blotted out of the book of life, and not be written with the righteous.


Daniel likewise was taught about The Book in Daniel 12:1 (WEB),

At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone who shall be found written in the book.


What do we observe about the Book of Life?

First, we observe that names must be written from the foundation of the world or you cannot be saved.  Thus faith does not add one's name to the Book of Life, but instead simply trusts that it is so.

Second, it initially appears like one's name can be blotted out from the Book of Life because of sin.  So can a name written in The Book from the Earth's foundation then be removed?  If so then no hope remains!

Third, Moses expressed a willingness to be removed from the Book of Life himself, if God would not forgive his fellow Israelites.  In this way Moses expresses a Christ-like heart and passion for the forgiveness of others or at least a frustrated fidelity to his fellow Israelites.

Fourth, only those named in the Book of Life at the Great White Throne judgment will be saved from the Lake of Fire.

What interpretive models are possible?

Model A:  Every human being is listed in the Book of Life initially, but sinning can permanently remove your name.  Everyone starts a winner, but most will still lose, A.K.A. pure works salvation, but reverse.

Model B:  Only a sub-set of human beings are listed in the Book of Life initially and sinning can permanently remove your name.  Not everyone starts a winner and even most of the winners will still lose, A.K.A. uncertain works salvation.

Model C:  Only a sub-set of human beings are listed in the Book of Life, and sinning can never blot your name (the elect cannot be blotted out, but are only threatened).  Not everyone starts a winner, but the subset chosen to win, will win, A.K.A. Calvinism.

Model D:  The Bible never makes one mention of names being added to the Book of Life, but, predestination aside, one can still hope to add your name by trusting Christ.  No one starts a winner, but a few will defeat the odds and win, A.K.A. Arminianism.

Model E:  The Bible never makes one mention of names being added to the Book of Life, but, predestination aside, everyone will add their name eventually by trusting Christ.  No one starts a winner, but time is the recipe to win everyone, A.K.A. Arminian Universalism.

Model F:   Every human being is listed in the Book of Life initially, but sinning can remove your name to suffer temporarily in the Lake of Fire.  Everyone starts a winner, but most will still lose, but only temporarily, A.K.A. Traditional Universalism.

Model G:  Every human being is listed in the Book of Life initially and nothing will ever remove your name from the Book of Life.  However, Christ is willing to preach fear to the rebellious elect even labeling them, "not my sheep," (John 10:26 WEB) or threatening to "blot" sinners from The Book.  Furthermore, Christ will punish even the redeemed in Hades, albeit temporarily, 2 Peter 2:1.  Thus, the Lake of Fire is prepared only for the Devil and his angels who are not listed in the Book of Life, but unbelievers also fear this destiny.  All humanity starts and finishes a winner, but most do not act like winners and suffer like losers due to their rejection of grace until the glory of God's grace is finally and irresistibly revealed to all mankind at the Great White Throne judgment, A.K.A. the thesis of Optimism Out of Control.

Thus Model G is my choice for the best interpretive model.  Further, defense can be found in my article, Special Strategies and Interpretations?

Thankfully the heart of Moses was a taste of the greater heart of Christ our Savior!  Jesus does not blot our names from the Book of Life, but instead blots out our sins!

I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake; and I will not remember your sins.

Isaiah 43:25 (WEB)

 

Moses boldly confronted God, appealing for Israel's forgiveness, but Christ even more boldly confronted all sin and sacrificed himself for all!

For him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

2 Corinthians 5:21 (WEB)

 

The point is that the heart of Christ is poured out for the salvation of all mankind and he has and will accomplish his goal.  Even Moses understood these things under the dim light of the Old Covenant.  Christ was formed in Moses enough that he had great boldness to appeal to the God of Heaven with the facts, "You cannot forgive me, if you do not forgive them!"

So how can we enlightened 20th century Christians under the glorious New Covenant settle for a mere "evangelical" fire insurance policy?  Do we have Moses' and Christ's broken heart for our fellowman?  Consider Paul's rebuke to the Galatian church.

My little children, of whom I am again in travail until Christ is formed in you— but I could wish to be present with you now, and to change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.

Galatians 4:19-20 (WEB)

One Verse a Theology Does Not Make... So 95+ THESES!

OBJECTOR>> You make too much of one verse with Romans 11:32.  One verse cannot prove that God loves all mankind!

ME>> You make an excellent point that one verse cannot build an entire system of truth.  However, I would add that one verse cannot build an entire system of truth... that is at contradiction with the remainder of the Bible.  HOWEVER, one verse can speak truthfully and powerfully.  One verse can speak truth that cannot be compromised by any other Scripture.  One verse can speak the grand conclusion of the Bible and the history of redemption just as Romans 11:32 has done.

However, to entertain your objection I join Martin Luther who posted 95 Theses to the door of the Castle Church of Wittenberg and offer you a second 95 Theses.  Each of the 95 points below challenge tradition with a question or verse that cannot be answered without adding either human condition or blind hypocrisy to the grace of God.

      SCRIPTURE TELLS 'ALL'

  1. 1 John 2:2, "And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the WHOLE world."
  2. 2 Corinthians 5:14, "For the love of Christ constrains us; because we judge thus, that one died for ALL, therefore ALL died."
  3. Acts 3:21, "Whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of ALL things, which God spoke long ago by the mouth of his holy prophets."
  4. Genesis 12:3, "I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. ALL the families of the earth will be blessed through you."
  5. Genesis 3:15, "I will put hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring and HER OFFSPRING. He will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel."
  6. Isaiah 66:23, "'It shall happen that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, ALL flesh will come to worship before me,' says Yahweh. "
  7. Philippians 2:10, "That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth."
  8. Psalm 22:27, "ALL the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to Yahweh. ALL the relatives of the nations shall worship before you."
  9. Revelation 5:13, "I heard EVERY created thing which is in heaven, on the earth, under the earth, on the sea, and EVERYTHING in them, saying, 'To him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion, forever and ever! Amen!'"
  10. Romans 11:16, "If the first fruit is holy, so is the LUMP. If the root is holy, so are the BRANCHES."
  11. Romans 11:32, "For God has bound ALL to disobedience, that he might have mercy on ALL."
  12. Romans 3:23-24, "For ALL have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;"
  13. Romans 5:18, "So then as through one trespass, ALL men were condemned; even so through one act of righteousness, ALL men were justified to life."
  14. Zephaniah 2:11, "Yahweh will be awesome to them, for he will famish all the gods of the land. Men will worship him, everyone from his place, even ALL the shores of the nations."
  15. Zephaniah 3:8-9, " 'Therefore wait for me', says Yahweh, 'until the day that I rise up to the prey, for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour on them my indignation, even all my fierce anger, for all the earth will be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. For then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that they may ALL call on Yahweh’s name, to serve him shoulder to shoulder.' "

    WORDS HAVE MEANIING

  16. "AGAPE", especially with respect to God, means certain, guaranteed, unconditional "Love" period!
  17. "AION" and "AIONIAN" means "Eon" and "Eonian", even more precisely the "duration" or "life" of the subject in question or "whole" and "complete", Romans 16:25-26.
  18. "ALL" may not always mean absolutely "All", but "All" does mean "All" if there is not a very specific reason against it!
  19. "APOLLYMI" translated "perish" in John 3:16 means catastrophic loss, but not necessarily eternal loss, for example Matthew 2:13.
  20. "FAITH" means to trust in, depend upon another and so faith itself then CANNOT be a condition to our confidante's guarantee, that would be utterly ridiculous!
  21. "GRACE" is the unmerited favor of God, his unconditional love towards his chosen people.
  22. "HADES" is the TEMPORARY place of punishment for unbelieving deceased humanity, Matthew 16:18, Luke 16:23, 1 Corinthians 15:55, and Revelation 20:14.
  23. "TARTARUS" is the TEMPORARY place of punishment, deeper than Hades, for imprisoned fallen angels, 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6.
  24. "THALAASA" in Revelation 20:13 refers to the prison "TARTARUS" of 2 Peter 2:4 or the retreat of some fallen angels as fully explained in my article, Fallen Angels at the Great White Throne Judgment.
  25. "THE LAKE OF FIRE" is prepared for the Devil and his Angels and NOT humanity!  Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:10, 21:8.

    TRADITION TRAPS EVEN THE BEST

  26. WHY not give Scripture the trump card over tradition?
  27. WHY not oppose tradition in light of the overwhelming evidence?
  28. WHY not recognize the future judgment of fallen angels in 2 Peter 2:4, Jude 6, and Matthew 25:31-46?
  29. WHY not reconsider the distinction between Sheol, Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus, Thalaasa, and the Lake of Fire?
  30. WHY not reconsider the mistranslation of 'AION' and 'AIONIAN'?
  31. WHY not trust that God's unconditional grace and love is truly without condition for all mankind?

    LEARN HISTORY OR BE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT

  32. Are you AWARE of the large number of Christian writers that have promoted the salvation of all mankind?
  33. Are you AWARE of the significant Universalist movements in the early history of the United States?
  34. Are you AWARE that hope for all mankind lost much ground when the Bible was not available in the common tongue?
  35. Are you AWARE that hope for all mankind was commonly accepted before the 5th century?
  36. Are you AWARE that hope for all mankind was rediscovered when the Bible became available in the common tongue after the Reformation?
  37. Are you AWARE that many early church father's advocated the salvation of all mankind?
  38. Are you AWARE that NO early church creed condemns the salvation of all mankind?

    ARMINIANISM REDEFINES FAITH AND GRACE

  39. IF God's unconditional love is conditioned on our faith, THEN why do the Scriptures emphasize that God loved us first while our hearts hated him?
  40. IF mankind's sins are fully atoned and God's wrath is propitiated by Christ's blood, THEN how can anyone be held guilty for their sins eternally?
  41. IF most of those who God's loves are damned eternally, THEN how good and effective can God's love really be?
  42. IF my faith 'applies' Christ's blood to my guilt, THEN how am I different than an Old Testament priest applying the blood myself?
  43. IF my will is already 'free' before Christ, THEN what does it mean that Christ sets me 'free'?
  44. IF my will is 'free', THEN why does the Bible say that apart from grace I am 'dead' and 'bound' to disobedience?
  45. IF you claim God also loves those in the Lake of Fire, THEN how can anyone be saved from the Lake of Fire by the same love?

    CALVINISM BLINDS PEOPLE WITH HYPOCRISY

  46. IF 'ALL' can mean absolutely 'ALL' in at least one use case, THEN why do you insist it does not in this particular case?
  47. IF Jesus became the Second Adam, the new Federal head of ALL humanity, THEN how was Christ sacrificed on the cross for only PART of humanity?
  48. IF election can speak of various appointments, THEN why not agree that all mankind is elected to forgiveness, but not all are elected to believe it?
  49. IF God did not chose all mankind, THEN how is knowledge of salvation by grace objectively possible?  On what basis?  What is the object your faith?
  50. IF God does not love all mankind, THEN how can you be objectively certain that God loves any particular person?
  51. IF God does not love all mankind, THEN how can you be objectively certain that God loves you?
  52. IF the redeemed can never be punished after death, THEN why are redeemed false teachers punished in Hades, 2 Peter 2:1-9?

    MISUNDERSTANDINGS KILL RELATIONSHIPS

  53. MISTRANSLATION of 'aion' easily accounts for much of the confusion in Christendom.
  54. The fearful voice of tradition and its MISUNDERSTANDINGS has drowned out the truth of God's love for all mankind.
  55. The incredible patience of God easily allows for grave MISUNDERSTANDINGS within his church as history shows.
  56. The judgments of angels are easily MISSED in Scripture because these people are hidden from our material eyesight.
  57. The religious tendency of the human heart easily explains the favor of Arminian and Calvinistic MISGUIDANCE.
  58. The unavailability of Scripture in the common tongues easily accounts for reliance on tradition and MISUNDERSTANDING through the Middle Ages.
  59. God apparently allows these blatant MISUNDERSTANDINGS to save the Pearl of Great Price for those who earnestly seek him.

    TRADITION TRADES REASON FOR IGNORANCE

  60. HOW are the unborn and infants saved without your required volitional decision to trust Christ?
  61. HOW can Christian conscience or reason find a gracious purpose for eternal damnation?
  62. HOW can your 'faith' be the condition to God's unconditional love, when true faith is trust that God's love is unconditional?
  63. HOW can God 'love' a person till their death, but switch gears and damn them eternally if they die before repentance?
  64. HOW can Jesus be the Savior of the world if most of mankind is damned?
  65. HOW can most Christians be so apathetic in evangelism if they truly believe most of mankind is damned?
  66. HOW can the first mention of eternal judgment in Scripture be as late as Daniel 12:2 if God is so concerned to save us from the Lake of Fire?
  67. HOW can you have confidence that Jesus forgave your sin while at the same time saying he did not forgive others?
  68. HOW can you ignore and even accept the major contradictions between Arminianism and Calvinism?
  69. HOW can you overlook the distinction between Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus, Thalassa, and the Lake of Fire with the use of one word, "Hell"?
  70. HOW can you say those in Heaven suffer no pain over those you claim are lost for eternity when even the wicked rich man in Hades agonized over his lost brothers?
  71. HOW can you stand on Arminianism, Calvinism, or the question mark in between?
  72. HOW could the Bible possibly be clearer about God's unconditional love for all mankind?
  73. HOW is Christ sovereign over salvation if the sinful will of a rebellious man is able to ruin God's desire that he be saved?
  74. HOW is Christ the victor if those that Satan tempts and accuses vastly outnumber the redeemed?

    ALL MANKIND IS LOVED BY GOD!

  75. IF Christ paid for the sins of any man, THEN he paid for the sins of all mankind!
  76. IF Christians have testified to God's love for all mankind throughout history, THEN God has provided his witness!
  77. IF human conscience testifies that the fate of any individual and all mankind alike rests in the final verdict of God alone, THEN God has provided his witness.
  78. IF the Atonement demonstrates that his cross is a finished work with all mankind represented in his vicarious death, THEN God has provided his witness.
  79. IF the Early Church Fathers openly testified to their confidence in the salvation of all mankind, THEN God has provided his witness.
  80. IF the Incarnation shows that Christ became a man and stands as the Second Adam and the new Federal Head of all humanity, THEN God has provided his witness.
  81. IF the Scriptures testify plainly to God's unconditional love for all mankind, THEN God has provided his witness.

    HADES GIVES UP FINALLY

  82. 1 Corinthians 15:55, "Death, where is your sting? HADES, where is your victory?"
  83. 1 Peter 3:18-20, "Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit, in whom he also went and PREACHED TO THE SPIRITS IN PRISON, who before were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ship was being built. In it, few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water."
  84. 1 Peter 4:5-6, "They will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For to this end the Good News was PREACHED EVEN TO THE DEAD, that they might be judged indeed as men in the flesh, BUT LIVE as to God in the spirit."
  85. 2 Peter 2:1,9, "But false prophets also arose among the people, as false teachers will also be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master who BOUGHT them, bringing on themselves swift destruction... The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment."
  86. Mathew 16:18, "I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and THE GATES OF HADES WILL NOT PREVAIL against it."
  87. Psalm 139:8, "If I ascend up into heaven, you are there. If I make my bed in SHEOL, behold, you are there!"
  88. Revelation 20:13-14, "The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and HADES GAVE UP THE DEAD who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

    MODERN WITNESSES WRITE

  89. Read Christ Victorious by Thomas Allin
  90. Read Hope Beyond Hell by Jerry Beauchemin
  91. Read Life Time Entirety by Dr. Heleen Keizer
  92. Read The Evangelical Universalist by Robin Parry
  93. Read The Gospel of God's Reconciliation of All in Christ by Ernst Stroeter
  94. Read The Greek Word AION by John Wesley Hanson
  95. Read All You Want to Know About Hell by Steve Gregg

    MORE THAN 95!

  96. Read The Inescapable Love of God by Thomas Talbott
  97. Read God's Methods with Man by G. Campbell Morgan
  98. Read Destined for Salvation, God's Promise to Save Everyone by Kalen Fristad
  99. Read All In All by A. E. Knoch
  100. Read Ancient History of Universalism by Hosea Ballou
  101. Read The Modern History of Universalism by Thomas Whittemore
  102. Read online about the "Victorious Gospel" and "Larger Hope"

Pinning down the slippery Arminian and Calvinist

A Question>> I logically understand your thesis that Christ is the Savior of all Mankind and would like to believe it.  However, I just cannot let go of the centuries of Christian scholars who have defended both Arminianism and Calvinism. Why would I want to change?

A Reply>> I can fully understand why it is difficult to let go of either Arminianism or Calvinism.  These systems have existed for centuries and so have a long history of acceptance.  These systems have also been written about over and over again.  They have been discussed, debated, and refined.  Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of those who profess Christ as Savior have adopted the rhetoric of one of these systems, albeit with some adjustment here or there.  So there may be little reason to consider a radical change that would rock the boat of your particular Christian community.  There may be little reason, except for one reason.  If the systems of Arminianism and Calvinism do fall short of truly accepting the grace of Christ as I have proposed, then you will meet with the wrath of God for your unrepentant self-righteousness instead of commendation as you currently suppose.

Would you be willing to walk through an outline of possible understandings?  Which camp would you place yourself in below?

1)    Victorious Gospel
  a.    Christ’s death satisfied the wrath of God for all mankind.
  b.    Believers are saved from sin to paradise; unbelievers are punished in Hades.
  c.    All mankind is saved from the Lake of Fire, prepared for the Devil & his angels.
  d.    This view is faithful to Scripture and faithful to the character of God’s grace.
  e.    Both feet are planted solidly on both the depth and breadth of God’s love.

2)    Calvinism
  a.    Christ’s death satisfied the wrath of God for a subset of mankind.
  b.    The Holy Spirit effectively brings the chosen subset to repentance and faith.
  c.    Those punished in Hades are also damned to the Lake of Fire.
  d.    This view is like the Jews who claimed to be elect while gentiles are not elect.
  e.    One foot is planted on the depth of God’s love, but the other foot on hypocrisy.

3)    Arminianism
  a.    Christ’s death potentially satisfies the wrath of God for all mankind.
  b.    Individual people exercise their free will to accept Christ and then are saved.
  c.    Those punished in Hades are also damned to the Lake of Fire.
  d.    This view reminds me of the graceless religions of the gentile world.
  e.    One foot is planted on the breadth of God’s love, the other on human condition.

4)    Mediation
  a.    Christ’s death satisfies God's wrath effectively for some, nominally for the rest.
  b.    Two mediating methods
    i.    The Holy Spirit effectively brings the chosen subset to repentance and faith.
    ii.    Individual people exercise their free will to accept Christ and then are saved.
  c.    Those punished in Hades are also damned to the Lake of Fire.
  d.    This view is really Calvinism or Arminianism in disguise or double mindedness.

5)    Simple faith and the Victorious Gospel is wrong
  a.    Simple faith that all people are sinners and Christ died for sinners.
  b.    Sinners are invited to trust Christ, but avoid debate and theology.
  c.    The Victorious Gospel is wrong because unbelievers are certainly damned.
  d.    This view is unfair to call the Victorious Gospel wrong without Scripture.
  e.    One foot appears to be planted on God’s love, but the other on tradition.

6)    Simple faith and the Victorious Gospel may be right
  a.    Simple faith that all people are sinners and Christ died for sinners.
  b.    Sinners are invited to trust Christ, but with ignorance of the extent of God’s love.
  c.    The Victorious Gospel sounds hopeful, and they may want to learn more.
  d.    This view appears interested in Scripture and grace more than tradition.
  e.    One foot appears to be planted on grace, but no certainty of who God loves.

May God speak to your heart and lead you to receive his grace and unconditional love toward both you and your neighbor, apart from any human condition.

Real or Apparent Paradox?

One thoughtful reader suggested that...

READER>> [Perhaps the different vantage points of those emphasizing God's sovereignty and man's free will only cause Calvinism and Arminianism to appear to be contradictory.  Or perhaps in lofty matters, such as this, real paradox is allowable.  For example, Skolem's Paradox in the area of mathematics or the wave-particle duality of light in physics could likewise illustrate real or apparent paradox.  Or perhaps when the subject matter becomes increasingly complex theories may naturally compete because no one theory can digest the whole - jlm].

ME>> I was hopeful that the Four Square Salvation Evaluation Model was sufficiently simple, or atomic in logic, that it could rule out the argument of the paradoxical.  Yet, the question has been raised and so it would be good to consider the possibility of real and apparent paradox.

I did suggest in my article, Nit Picky?, that the Bible does not reveal all truth to us, only the truth that God deems sufficient for us to live a life of faith and please him.  One might argue that it is possible that the answer to the apparent contradiction between Arminianism and Calvinism is not revealed in Scripture.  That is not my conclusion for two reasons.

One, the New Testament says repeatedly that the gospel has revealed, that is explained, the mystery that was kept secret, Romans 16:25.  Nowhere does it say that the gospel introduced further mystery.  The gospel opens the box of understanding God's grace.  It does not close it!

Two, the main thesis of my clarification of the gospel is that apparent contradiction in gospel truth is not because there is real paradox in gospel truths, but because the gospel speaks truth to the believing and foolishness to the unbelieving.  The truth itself is not paradoxical, but disbelieving Christ certainly is paradoxical!  Consider the paradox of men looking into the sky, unable to see or be thankful for the beautiful shining sun.  Yet the paradox is understood when we also observe that the men are blind and clouds of sin obscure the view.  So the paradox is not with God or truth, but between our ears and in our hearts.  Neither Arminian nor Calvinistic models appreciate that fact.  They both make the mistake of assuming that God reasons with the unreasonable.  But God is a wiser parent than that.

Is it possible that both Arminian and Calvin expressions of the gospel each have components of truth sufficient to capture a truthful, though incomplete, picture of the gospel?  Since they are from different vantage points and each incomplete, perhaps there is only the appearance of contradiction.  I summarized that Calvinism tells us that God performed ALL of salvation for PART of mankind.  Arminianism in contrast says that God performed PART of salvation for ALL of mankind.  These models do not simply appear contradictory, but they are contradictory!  Perhaps the true Biblical model on this question is a third option that disagrees with both Arminianism and Calvinism.  Yet what would it be?

Does the Bible teach that Christ's death on the cross is intended for ALL mankind or only PART?  It seems to me that there can only be one plain answer.  Mathematically it can only be the whole set and if not the whole set, then it is a subset.  Does the Bible teach that salvation is ALL of grace or only PART of grace plus man's free will choice?  Again it seems to me that there can only be one plain answer.  Use a telescope or a microscope to see the active ingredient and if it is not singular, then it is plural.

In my article, Soteriologies, I attempted to simplify the analysis of the question.  Is it possible that both Arminianism and Calvinism each see an incomplete picture of the gospel from their vantage points?  I do not think that is possible since each model proposes to be a complete picture that is contradictory with the other.  If one or both models would stop short of proposing a complete model giving allowance for the other model to see from its vantage point, then there might be hope.  However, as it stands, Arminianism and Calvinism are a "house divided" that cannot stand together. Furthermore, in the body of this book I have exposed each of their individual errors so neither model can stand independently either.  Though these models both hit the truth at some points, they also each fail at other points.

Second, since the subject matter of God and salvation is so lofty, is real paradox then a possibility?  I've argued above that the paradox between Arminianism and Calvinism is more than an apparent paradox.  After all, there are questions unanswered by the historic orthodoxies with 2,000 years of the greatest theological minds in history applied to the problem.  The paradox remains and if possible we must hope for an explanation, or in the end simply wait or accept the possibility of real paradox.  Now some have argued that we should be willing to accept paradox as a reasonable answer.  (That could be considered a funny statement to accept para-dox as reason-able.)  For example, we do see evidence of other real paradoxes such as Skolem's Paradox in the area of mathematics and the wave-particle duality of light in physics.  Yet are these real paradoxes or only apparent paradoxes?

The word paradox is the combination of "para" meaning alongside and "dox" meaning "orthodox" or truth.  The idea is that there can be contradictory truth alongside truth.  So is that possible?  Certainly there are paradoxes around us every day.  However, most of these paradoxes are only apparent.  Typically, if we gain more information the appearance of paradox is explained away.  Yet some paradoxes remain.  Is it because they are truly and finally inexplicable?  Or is it because we yet wait for more information?  I believe that ultimately there can be no paradoxes from God's vantage point for he is perfect truth and love.  He knows and sees all from the loftiest vantage point.  There is most certainly not contradictory truth alongside truth in the mind of God.  I conclude this based on the character of God and the veracity of his revealed word.  However, just as surely, none of us will ever see the universe perfectly from his vantage point, because we will never be God!

Yet God has revealed truth to us and thankfully the world around us makes more and more sense to those believing God's Word.  How exciting that Jesus would call us his friends and make his Father's business known to us, John 15:15!  And for the things that we do not yet understand or perhaps never will, we can also be excited and simply worship God while we wait.  Finally, the perfection of God and his gospel make it plain to me that there is never paradox in the truth observed, but unfortunately there remains paradox in the unbelieving observer.  Paradox in the unbeliever?  Yes.  How can anyone hear the good news and see the beautiful face of Jesus Christ and not fall in love immediately and offer undying commitment?  Yet we turn from Christ all the time.  Why?  That is the paradox of unbelief that requires the special attention of gospel foolishness.

Many claim 'truth is a paradox,'
they boast their 'God is not in a box.'
Many say 'answers one cannot see,'
they attempt harbor in Gospel 'mystery'.
Yet the Bible reveals, Christ chose to die for all,
He authored the Book of Life, can we reach that tall?
Very few find great hope in this truth observed,
they are happy to trust, obey, and never swerve.
Yet the many mix 'truths' with their god locked in errors,
foolishness is needed for those double-minded observers.
How to reach the rebellious chosen, lost from God's keep,
Jesus calls them home saying... you are not my sheep.

~ Foolishness for the Foolish by a Fool for Christ ~

Roman Hell Fire?

I ask myself...

SELF>> By the way where is Hell and the Lake of Fire in the Book of Romans?

ME>> Self, that is an excellent question.  The Book of Romans is Paul's premier thesis on the subject of Christian salvation.  One would expect a thorough explanation of eternal destinies outlined in this work.  What does Romans have to say about Hades / Hell?  What does Romans have to say about the Lake of Fire?  Curiously, the book of Romans does not mention Hell or the Lake of Fire explicitly even one time!  However, on the positive side Romans does speak about Eternal Life.  Romans does speak about God's judgment of physical death for the wicked behavior of the unbelieving in Romans 1:32.  Romans also speaks about justification resulting in freedom from condemnation to eternal death.  I just found it curious that Romans does not explicitly mention Hades or the Lake of Fire.

My theory on that is that the larger focus of Romans is the positive hope of the gospel, the invitation for all mankind to believe, and the power of the gospel to transform and save people from... sin.  If you are looking for a fire insurance policy for protection from the Lake of Fire, do not read the book of Romans.  You will not find fire insurance there.  The book of Romans is written to awaken the unbelieving elect to the awesome guarantee they already have in Christ.  The book of Romans is also written to save the believing from the dread effects of our sinful nature.

The key application from the gospel of grace for God's people is "BE TRANSFORMED."

Salvation: Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How?

FRIENDS>> You've made a big deal about the fact that Hell and the Lake of Fire are not the same place. You have also raised a lot of other questions that I never thought about before.  Why?

ME>> That is an excellent question.  We Christians make many mistakes.  One mistake we make is failing to ask questions and working hard to seek answers.  Perhaps we are afraid of the unknown and so hold even more tightly to our traditions.  A second mistake is that we fail to introduce the questions to others and point them to the answers.  Perhaps we are afraid of rejection.  The worst case of this scenario is that the blind are leading the blind.  We sell people answers, and they buy it, with neither party knowing what the truth is.  We warn people about the judgment to come, but we have no practical knowledge of the invisible world around us and the future appointments and destinies explained in Scripture.  So let's briefly consider the who, what, where, why, and how of salvation.

Who needs to be saved and from whom?

Transgressors need mercy from the Judge or they will continue to suffer the consequences of transgression and will reap condemnation.  We sinners, that is all mankind, need mercy from Jesus or we will be ruined by our sinful choices and be condemned, Romans 6 and Revelation 22.

How can we be saved and how did Jesus do it?

How can we be saved from sin's consequences and from condemnation?  Salvation for a transgressor requires repentance.  A transgressor can only be saved from sin by ceasing to sin.  If our head hurts from hitting it against a wall, if we stop hitting the wall, then we will get immediate relief.  The problem is we transgressors transgress because we love transgression.  We must repent, but our hearts are so hard that we will only repent when God places his seed of change in our life, I John 3.  More importantly pain isn't the only consequence of sin, but also condemnation and eternal death.  There is no erasing our transgression.  We are guilty and damnation is required without exception.  The good news is that Jesus Christ became a man and took our penalty for us, dying on the cross.  Now there is a new exception!  There is absolutely nothing the elect of God can do through our own effort or failure to activate or deactivate this wonderful gift from God.  Instead the work of Christ stands completely finished for all God's people and is already freely given to us.  But only through the new birth will individuals receive this good news and find true joy.

Where are the possible habitats and destinies of living beings?

God is.  He is spirit and does not live in space time, Exodus 3 and I Timothy 6.  Created beings came into existence in the beginning of creation and we live in space time creation.  Humans and animals live on the earth, Genesis 1.  Angels and demons (fallen angels) are everywhere, though invisibly, 2 Kings 6.  Jesus, God the Son, took on flesh in 4 A.D., lived and died on the Earth, was raised to life, and now is at God the Father's right hand in Heaven, Hebrews 1.  Some of the fallen angels may have actually lived and sinned on the Earth, Genesis 6 and Jude 6, but now are imprisoned in Tartarus (Thalassa), 2 Peter 4 and Revelation 20:13.  Other fallen angels are also restricted from God's presence in Heaven at some point in history, Revelation 12.  Paradise or Hades is the place people go after they die, Hades being a temporary place of punishment for unbelievers.  The rich man and other unbelievers like him are punished in Hades immediately after they die, Luke 16.  Abraham and other believers like him are rewarded in Paradise (Abraham's Bosom) immediately after they die, Luke 16.  There is a Gulf in Hades between Hades and Paradise.  The Beast and The False Prophet are the first to be thrown into the Lake of Fire in Revelation 19.  Satan is temporarily chained in The Abyss, Revelation 20.  Satan is then released from The Abyss for God's final demonstration of God's grace and then Satan is finally thrown into the Lake of Fire for The Ages of The Ages, Revelation 20.  The abode of the dead has the compartments of Paradise and Hades which is eventually emptied of all humans and angels and thrown into the Lake of Fire, empty!  Hades is only a temporary holding area.  Tartarus, the temporary holding place for some fallen angels, is also emptied and will be no more, Revelation 21:1.  The New Heavens and New Earth is then revealed as the final dwelling place for redeemed humanity and the righteous angels to fellowship eternally with God, Revelation 21.  The Lake of Fire is the destiny of Satan and his fallen angels for The Ages of The Ages, Matthew 25:41.  So the places living beings have been or will be found include:

  • Outside space time - God
  • Inside space time - Creation
    • Earth - here
    • Heaven - up there
      • Third heaven mentioned in 2 Corinthians 2:12
    • The Abode of the Dead - temporary holding place for deceased humanity
      • Hades / Hell - punishment for unbelieving humans
      • Paradise / Abraham's Bosom - reward for believing humans
    • Tartarus / Thalassa - temporary prison or retreat for some fallen angels
    • The Abyss - special temporary punishment for Satan
    • The Lake of Fire - destiny of the non-elect, the fallen angels
    • The New Heavens and Earth - eternal destiny of the elect, mankind

Why did sin enter the world and why did Jesus give us grace?

The key verse of my thesis answers that question easily.  Romans 11:32 (WEB), "For God has bound all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all."   Ephesians 2:7 (WEB), an often overlooked verse, also explains the reasons for God's decision to extend grace, "that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus."  Simply put, God decreed the existence of sin in order to show off his grace.  Boy did He hit a homer!

What is next?

You or I may be overwhelmed with the truth about God's grace.  Our questions resulted in answers that resulted in even greater questions!  Our minds could easily be blown away by God's amazing grace.  The original disciples, no doubt, felt the same way as Jesus gave them the Great Commission and left them as he ascended into Heaven right before their eyes.  So Jesus sent angels to provide simple instruction while they stood there with their mouths hanging open.

'You men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky, will come back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky.'

Acts 1:11b (WEB)


Translation, get to work making disciples and keep an eye peeled toward the sky.

So Simply Sin Since the Savior is Sovereign?

OBJECTION>> You have made a big deal about God's sovereignty, man's free will (or lack of free will), and grace given to all mankind.  So shall we simply sin since the Savior is sovereign?

ME>> That is one possible reaction to the gospel.  In fact, Martyn Lloyd-Jones said,

First of all let me make a comment, to me a very important and vital comment. The true preaching of the gospel of salvation by grace alone always leads to the possibility of this charge being brought against it. There is no better test as to whether a man is really preaching the New Testament gospel of salvation than this, that some people might misunderstand it and misinterpret it to mean that it really amounts to this, that because you are saved by grace alone it does not matter at all what you do; you can go on sinning as much as you like because it will redound all the more to the glory of grace. That is a very good test of gospel preaching. If my preaching and presentation of the gospel of salvation does not expose it to that misunderstanding, then it is not the gospel.


So the reaction from the unbeliever toward the good news is that he now has the license to sin to his heart's content.  And that is the heart of the problem.  His heart is black and can only be made content with more sin.  He is blind to the fact that sin is bad and God is good.  The response of the believer, however, is to cry out to God for help to leave our love of sin.  We are sick of sin's destruction and wish we could push the button to end all sin forever.  However, God alone is sovereign with exclusive authority over the existence of sin.  Praise the day when he pushes the button!

So, yes, grace is a license to sin, but not like the unbeliever thinks.  Grace is God's promise that our sin will never separate us from the love of God and that no matter how many times we fail, we can always return to the Lord, free from condemnation.  Furthermore, since God is sovereign over even the evil in this world we can trust that he has a good purpose even for painful circumstances.  This is a powerful license, but since the unbeliever does not understand that sin is bad, he views grace as an opportunity to sin further.  The believer, however, has had his fill of sin's consequences.  The Psalmist understood this exactly when he said

If you, Yahweh, kept a record of sins,
Lord, who could stand?
But there is forgiveness with you,
therefore you are feared.
I wait for Yahweh.
My soul waits.
I hope in his word.

Psalm 130:3-5 (WEB)


The unbeliever does not understand that his own nature is bound to sin and that in fact he cannot even choose not to sin.  Oh, certainly he might pause a sin or two from time to time.  However, if he truly had free will he could decide to never sin again.  Why not if his will is truly free?  Try it yourself.  Learn the perfect law of the Lord.  Compare his ways with your ways until you are made aware of your flaws.  Love his way in your heart.  Then use your free will to decide to never sin again.  Friends, this is not possible.  Only one man in the history of the world ever exercised his free will to live a perfect life, free from all sin, the God-man, Jesus Christ.

So then since God is sovereign and our will is not free, then is God to blame for my sinful choices?  No.  God answers this question in Romans 9:14-24 (WEB),

14) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? May it never be! 15) For he said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16) So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy. 17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I caused you to be raised up, that I might show in you my power, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18) So then, he has mercy on whom he desires, and he hardens whom he desires. 19) You will say then to me, "Why does he still find fault? For who withstands his will?" 20) But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed ask him who formed it, "Why did you make me like this?" 21) Or hasn't the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor? 22) What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath made for destruction, 23) and that he might make known the riches of his glory on vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory, 24) us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles?


Thankfully Jesus is sovereign over all, including his grace!  He is sovereign over the existence of sin.  He is sovereign over the final end of sin, one glorious day in the future.  And he is sovereign over the grace given to mankind.  He has a good purpose for everything and his loving hand holds all.  Join me looking to the day when Jesus removes all sin forever and perfect loving fellowship with God and each other begins!

Special Strategies and Interpretations?

Another careful reader asked...

READER>> [You propose that a proper understanding of the gospel includes special strategy and interpretation.  For example, you say that "eternal" is not always eternal.  You say that Jesus calls unbelievers "not His sheep," but they really are elect, lost sheep.  You say that even though the Bible says God hated Esau, that he really loved him.  You say that wisdom gives one answer to the fool and another answer to the wise. Really?  What is the end of re-interpreting the Bible to defend your own unbiblical views? - jlm]

ME>> This is perhaps the most important question that could be asked of my thesis.  It is my singular goal to be thoroughly Biblical.  To adopt a view apart from the Scripture offers no real hope.  There would be absolutely no point to it.  Suppose you or I received a court summons in the mail.  We could try to imagine the letter to be an invitation to Disney World.  However, our interpretation would make no difference when the police arrived to escort us to the judge.  Likewise, hiding behind silly interpretations will not protect the remaining self-righteousness that will be stripped away when final judgment is made based solely on the righteousness of Christ.  We might like to imagine Heaven to be a giant Disney World in the sky that everyone is invited to attend with free will faith as their ticket.

However, this fictional understanding of salvation misses the whole point of grace.  Heaven is the destiny of all those predestined for salvation, and these righteous are invited to live by faith.  Heaven is not an eternal Disney World vacation, but an eternity of worshiping Christ.  If all someone has is fire insurance they definitely will not find comfort adoring Jesus for an eternity.  Sure everyone hopes for a happy afterlife, but only the believing are eager to worship Christ our savior.  So really what matters is not our imagination, but the truth.  Thus any special or unusual interpretation about salvation is only justified if it is also justified by Scripture itself.

Does wisdom give one answer to the fool and another answer to the wise?

Yes, according to Scripture in Proverbs 26:4-5, wisdom answers the same question differently for the wise man and the fool.  For example, John 1:11 begins hopefully, making it clear that all mankind belongs to Christ.  However, when foolish unbelief is evident Jesus tells the unbelieving that they are "not His sheep" in John 10:26.  Gently I ask on what basis do you have confidence that you are elect?  Think carefully before you say you met the condition of faith therefore you must be elect, because Christian faith must be founded on Biblical facts.  What Biblical fact do you have to confirm that you are elect, while even one other human being is not?  Your answer may expose that in fact you do not have Christian faith.

Does God love Esau even though Romans 9:13 says he hated Esau?

Many verses say that God loved the world.  John 3:16 is a well-known verse that you are no doubt familiar with.  Arminians understand these verses to mean every individual within mankind is loved by God, though sadly they also think that salvation is only secured through God's love PLUS man's faith.  Calvinists, however, properly understand that salvation is through God's loving grace alone, simply received by faith.  Yet they are also convinced that God does not love all mankind because they think not all are saved.  Since his saving love can never fail they conclude that those not saved are specifically not loved by God, such as Esau whom God hated.  They interpret "all" to mean, not every individual, but instead every "category" of human.

Now, I have never heard a Calvinist evangelize by saying, "God might love you OR you might be one of those hated by God."  That would be pure silliness.  Yet it is a proper application of their understanding.  So what is a better understanding?  Scripture itself states in Romans 11:28 that the unbelieving are "ENEMIES as far as the gospel is concerned, but LOVED as far as election is concerned."  This Scripture answers your question precisely.  In fact the answer to your question is part of the whole concluding argument of the book of Romans!  Your question is an excellent one, given complete attention in Paul's Magnum Opus.

So again the Scripture defines the boundary for our interpretations.  Again gently I ask if you believe that God does hate the many and love the few, then on what basis do you conclude that you are loved?  Maybe like Esau you are hated for rejecting the gospel, but still loved on account of election.  Or do you believe that he loves all, but eventually hates the people who reject him?  Certainly you do not believe that God could love anyone that he damns for all eternity!  How could he love them when it is within his power to save them?  Yet, the elect, though deserving damnation, are shown grace, God's unmerited determination to love and forgive those who hated him!  Friend, God is fishing for men and you may have just swallowed the fish hook of His grace!  From personal experience I suggest you give up the fight.

Are the unbelievers Jesus calls "not His sheep" really elect?

I grew up in a congregation that avoided the subject of predestination because it was a fearful doctrine.  I have since grown to love this doctrine.  Anyone who understands the doctrine of predestination also understands that God's determined love has already been decided for the elect not only before they have believed, but also before we were born, and even before the world was made.  The Scriptures remind us in many places that God loved us BEFORE we loved him.

However, that does not mean I was a Christian before I was born again.  My heart was not regenerate.  I did not have the Holy Spirit.  I did not have faith.  I was not yet given the right to become a child of God, even though I was elect.  (Infant baptizing Christians make a grave mistake in receiving Christ on behalf of their children.)  The Scriptural defense for this understanding is all over the New Testament and very clearly spelled out in Hosea 2:23.

Now God's knowledge of me and heart towards me was constant through the whole period of my unbelief.  Yes, I was an object of wrath for my part because of my rebellious nature and hatred of God.  But God did not eternally hate me, nor any unbelieving elect, ever, though his wrath remains on the unbelieving.  However, my knowledge of God and my heart toward him radically changed when I received his forgiveness from the cross.  Through repentance and faith I obtained salvation from my sin nature and from punishment in Hell for my unbelief.  In time I also grew to understand the salvation of the elect from the Lake of Fire.  Now you may think instead that your free will choice of faith adds your name to the elect.  Friend, unfortunately that is not saving faith, but is instead works salvation.

How can "eternal" not always mean eternal?

I had come to the conclusion that "forever" and "eternal" in the New Testament must not always mean "forever" and "eternal" because the context of grace demanded salvation satisfaction even for the unbelieving.  And so I concluded that the Holy Spirit used the word "forever" and "eternal" to describe the long, but finite time of punishment in Hades for the unbelieving.  I also concluded that if Abraham's faith could reasonably trust that God could "call things that are not, as though they were," then I certainly was not unreasonable to conclude that God could save people from "eternal" punishment in Hell.  Furthermore, it is also evident and believed by all orthodox Christians that Jesus abolished the "eternal" Old Covenant in his flesh.  So I concluded that "eternal" does not always mean "forever" when God is in the picture.

The Lord has, however, recently corrected my understanding.  My logic was sound, but incomplete.  Please forgive me for that.  I had already shown that the Hebrew word "olam" does not always mean eternal, but instead it means the duration of the subject in view.  Every Hebrew lexicon denotes this fact.  Yet without much homework I concluded that the same must be true of the Greek word translated "eternal" in the New Testament, the Greek word "aion."  I had planned to do further homework to prove this for myself.

However, recently the Lord has blessed me through a reunion with John Wesley Hanson's classic 1875 work titled, The Greek Word Aion-Aionios translated Everlasting-Eternal in the Holy Bible Shown to Denote Limited Duration.  I was first introduced to this work in college by a good friend, but sadly my memory is largely untrustworthy and I forgot about the critical points made in this book.  None-the-less, this classic work is available for free from the U.S. Library of Congress website and also from my own website.  This 88 page book is a must read for anyone who agrees or disagrees with my conclusions.  There is little point to my adding further to this definitive work.  Study this volume for yourself and your faith and understanding of the Bible will be challenged in radically positive ways, if you are willing to let go of all your self-righteousness.

Dr. Heleen Keizer has also written a dissertation proving the same titled, Life, Time, Entirety - A Study of Aion in Greek Literature and Philosophy, the Septuagint and Philo.  You can read her 315 page dissertation online or an abstract of her conclusions from my website.  You might think it is incredulous to claim that "aion" is mistranslated in many Bibles.  Unless you are competent in ancient Greek you may not even know how to verify this for yourself.  The NASB-NIV Parallel New Testament in Greek in English is an invaluable resource on my shelf.  Young's Literal Translation is also a valuable resource.

Will you not at least concede the point that, if the grace of God has forgiven a rebel like you, then his forgiveness could also extend just as easily to unbelieving mankind since Christ is their Federal head and savior also?  The application of grace is in fact in his power alone.  The good news is that the death of Christ demands the salvation of mankind, as well as the punishment of the unbelieving who reject his grace!  However, the punishment of the unbelieving is not eternal, but governed by God's loving grace.

Certainly you must agree that your faith does not add to the work of Christ which is freely given to both you and all mankind.  Do you agree?  Perhaps the problem is not that I lack a Biblical defense for these radical views, but I respectfully ask if you are lacking a radical Biblical faith.

There is No Punishment After Death for the Redeemed!

CALVINIST>> There is No Punishment After Death for the Redeemed!

ME>> I wish that were true.

I understand that the Calvinist way of thinking insists that there is no punishment after death for anyone whose sins have been paid for at the cross.  This way of thinking is why you come to the conclusion that Jesus did not die for all mankind, because you know that people are punished after death.  Yet, you too quickly conclude that the answer is that Jesus did not die for all mankind and that he does not love all mankind.  Furthermore, to hold to your understanding, you offend many of Scriptures.

Consider these four plain Scriptures.

1 John 2:1-2 (WEB) says,

1) My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous. 2) And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.


Jesus did pay for all mankind's sin - the believing and the unbelieving.  He paid for our sin whether we believe it or not!  How could this verse be plainer?

2 Peter 2:1-10 (WEB) says,

1) But false prophets also arose among the people, as false teachers will also be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction. 2) Many will follow their immoral ways, and as a result, the way of the truth will be maligned. 3) In covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words: whose sentence now from of old doesn’t linger, and their destruction will not slumber. 4) For if God didn’t spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness to be reserved for judgment; 5) and didn’t spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah with seven others, a preacher of righteousness, when he brought a flood on the world of the ungodly; 6) and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, having made them an example to those who would live in an ungodly way; 7) and delivered righteous Lot, who was very distressed by the lustful life of the wicked 8) (for that righteous man dwelling among them was tormented in his righteous soul from day to day with seeing and hearing lawless deeds): 9) the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, 10) but chiefly those who walk after the flesh in the lust of defilement and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries.


Yet false teachers, even though they are bought, redeemed, and their sins fully paid, will be held under punishment for the Day of Judgment.  How could this verse be plainer?  How could this truth be worded more clearly than it already is?  The answer is that it could not be worded more clearly, but instead Calvinist theology is at odds with the Scripture itself.

Jesus also said in Luke 12:47-48 (WEB),

47) That servant, who knew his lord’s will, and didn’t prepare, nor do what he wanted, will be beaten with many stripes, 48)  but he who didn’t know, and did things worthy of stripes, will be beaten with few stripes. To whomever much is given, of him will much be required; and to whom much was entrusted, of him more will be asked.


The pie in the sky thinking about God's forgiveness does not square with the Biblical picture of Jesus' wrath against sin and the punishments he has planned for the unbelieving redeemed... and perhaps even for the believing.  Yes, God does forgive and has forgiven all, but he also punishes those He loves, as made clear in Psalm 130:4, Hebrews 12:10, and throughout the Scriptures!  The proper posture for God's people is to brace ourselves for our interview with the Holy Righteous Creator Redeemer Judge of the entire Universe, confessing that we have sinned greatly and trusting that our sin is fully paid at the cross.

Instead of offending these Scriptures above why not simply change your mind, and agree that the unbelieving will be punished in Hades even though their sins are paid?  Why not also change your mind and agree with me that the atonement of Christ will finally be effective in their salvation after they have served their sentence in Hades?  Could tradition and the influence of denominational camps be influencing your judgment?

Jesus promised in Matthew 16:17-20 (WEB),

17) Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18) I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19)  I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven; and whatever you release on earth will have been released in heaven." 20) Then he commanded the disciples that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.


The gates of Hades will be defeated!  Why not believe?

The Good, Bad, and Ugly of John Robinson

Objectors to my hopeful conclusions about salvation have asked me to review other books in order to win me back to traditional theology, that is that few humans are saved while most are eternally damned.  I have taken up the challenge and have posted various Book Reviews on my website.  I thought it was a fair suggestion to allow myself to be influenced by Christians of different conviction.  However, I thought it would also be fair to review books by those also holding to the salvation of all mankind in order to compare our reasons.  Perhaps error in their reason would win me back to tradition, or truth in their reason would confirm my conclusions.

I have found that there is quite a range of thought even among those confident in the final salvation of all mankind.  In fact, sadly, the divisions between them in faith and fellowship might even be deeper than between those of traditional Christianity.  Yet, most have observed, as I, that "aion" is at times wrongly translated "eternal" in the English New Testament.  Some are silent about the salvation of fallen angels, while others have concluded that even Satan will be saved, to which I am not yet persuaded.  Most have respected and protected inspiration and strove for reasonable interpretation of the given Word, but some have even violated the Holy Spirit suggesting that difficult verses are better explained as human error.  Many have even further differences of various natures, no doubt influenced by the traditions and experience from which they came. 

I wanted to give my review of Robinson special attention because his book includes a concept that could wrongly be considered the same as one of my own conclusions.  I have said that integral to the gospel are Special Strategies to reach the heart of the unbelieving as mentioned in my articles, Flying Impossible and Proverbs 26:4-5.  Robinson has similarly said that the gospel includes the mythological reality of eternal damnation for the unbeliever.  Though I have significant points of comparison with Robinson, I want NO part of his assertion that the Holy Scripture contains mythological reality.  Instead, the only myths that have ever existed are the myths in the mind of unbelieving man.  For further explanation read my brief review of Robinson's work following.

John Robinson wrote In the End, GOD, A Study of the Christian Doctrine of Last Things.  Robinson offends epistemology and inspiration so gravely with the invention of eschatological myth that many will throw the book away after Chapter 5, if they get that far.  I nearly did myself!  Yet he makes key points in later chapters: The Resurrection of the Body, The End of the Lord, and All in All.  He is accused of arrogance by Trevor Hart for asserting that God must save all mankind because of Christ.  On that point I join Robinson!  Yet Robinson missed the aionian nature of Hades and instead violates inspiration to explain Scripture.  Thomas Torrance also condemns Robinson for saying the gospel includes the mythological reality of eternal damnation for the unbeliever.  Yet Torrance is self-condemned saying the mystery of sin requires the damnation of unbelievers even though their sins are atoned!

Robinson's book is terribly difficult to read as well as the essays in response by Trevor Hart and Thomas Torrance.  I confess that I only understood 50% of any of it, at best.  So I will keep my review to the main points in simple outline form.  If I have misunderstood Robinson, Hart, or Torrance, please contact me and I will correct this article immediately.  Yet as much as I understand Robinson, his theology can be outlined in the proverbial Good, Bad, and Ugly.

  1. The Good

    1. Robinson asserts on page 73, "In Adam all die; but in Christ all are made alive.  That is the divine 'nevertheless,' beyond all hope or merit.  It rests on no condition or virtue or spirituality, but solely on the unconditional love of God."  He is accused of arrogance for this statement.  I will gladly take my place beside Robinson and assert the same!  Confidence that Christ has paid for my sin and the sin of my neighbor equally is not arrogance, but humility.

    2. Robinson says on page 29, "Every truth about eschatology is ipso facto a truth about God."  He emphasizes that our conclusions about the culmination of the history of redemption reflect the very character of God.  How true!  Beware that when teaching about future things we proclaim either our faith in the God who IS --or-- our faith in the god who is NOT!

    3. Robinson quotes Matthew 25:31-33,46 on page 94, saying the Bible speaks, "On the one hand, universal restoration; on the other a clear division between the saved and the lost."  Robinson insists that we cannot deny the Scriptural truth of eternal damnation.  For that he is commended.  Objectors to the salvation of all mankind likewise see the clear parallel construct of Matthew 25:31-46 which saves the sheep eternally on the right and damns the goats eternally on the left.  Some Christian Universalists say that since the word "eternal" is "aion" in Matthew 25:46, then this judgment cannot speak about eternal damnation, but instead age-during punishment.  Robinson does not follow that reasoning, nor do I.  The word "aion" can also mean eternal when the subject in view is eternal, so this line of Universalist reasoning is not strong enough.  Nearly all Christian Universalists agree that the "aion" of Hades is temporal because Hades ends in Revelation 20:14.  However, as far as we can conclude from the revealed word, the "aion" of the Lake of Fire is instead "The Ages of The Ages" because no end is explicitly mentioned, just as the "aion" of God and his faithful love are eternal.  Many Christian Universalists further argue that the "kolasis" of Matthew 25:46 means "discipline" so this judgment is not damnation, but instead corrective.  Yet the only other New Testament use of "kolasis" in 1 John 4 is not loving correction, but fearful judgment.  It may be the case that even Satan's time in the Lake of Fire is corrective and ends eons past the end of Scripture.  However, there is a much stronger and more important argument to be made that is missed by Robinson and many Universalists.  Now to the Bad and the Ugly.

  2. The Bad

    1. Though Robinson uses reasoned argument in defense of his position, in order to explain the whole of Scripture he says that the truth of the gospel does not "rest on logic."  I certainly agree that truth cannot rest on corrupted human logic.  I also agree that salvation cannot rest on having a logical understanding.  However, independent of our thoughts, the truth itself must rest on the perfect logic and reason within the Godhead, which God reveals to believing mankind to some degree.  To cut out the importance that gospel truths also be reasonable opens Robinson to grave errors.  There is no paradox in the mind, plans, and Word of God.

    2. Furthermore, Robinson tries to bridge the gap between the certain universal salvation of all mankind and the Scriptures he understands to speak about the eternal damnation of unbelieving mankind.  To do so he undermines the Holy Spirit as the author of Scripture assigning it to human authors who speak eschatological myths.  He says on page 28, "[Eschatological statements in the Bible] are neither inerrant prophecies of the future nor pious guesswork."  Though Robinson says his proofs do not rest on logic, his whole book is an effort to make logical sense of the Bible which appears to contradict the salvation of all and the damnation of many.  He then illogically explains perceived contradictions in Scripture by saying Scripture does NOT contain inerrant prophecy.  Whoa, stop the train!  If the Biblical prophecies of future hope and future judgment are not inerrant, what basis remains to establish anything Christian?

    3. Robinson simply needed more information to add up the facts more reasonably.  Yet, he is not necessarily guiltier than me.  In a similar way, in the first version of Optimism Out of Control, I concluded that the New Testament usage of "eternal" must mean temporal when the grace of God is in view.  I concluded that unbelievers are sentenced to "eternal" punishment, but the overwhelming evidence of Scripture, grace, and the character of God must somehow find a way to end this "eternal" punishment.  I was further persuaded because Jesus found a way to end the "eternal" Old Covenant and replace it with the New Covenant.  I was even further persuaded because Abraham, the father of faith, trusted that "God... calls things that are not, as though they were."  Finally, I noticed that the inhabitants of Hades are extracted out in Revelation 20:14.  That was enough for me... initially!  Similar to Robinson, I allowed grace to interpret the word "eternal" mythologically.  However, we both missed the observation made by nearly every proponent of universal salvation, that "aion" should not be translated "eternal" in many cases because it means "age" or the "life" of the subject in question.  I should not have interpreted "eternal" in a mythological way, but translators also should have used the word "eon" instead!  I guess my main difference with Robinson is that God allowed me to correct my error.  Read more in my article Forever is Not Forever?  You Gotta Be Kidding Me!
    4. One last observation that Robinson and many of my contemporary Universalist friends have missed is that the Lake of Fire is "prepared for...THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS."  Matthew 25:31-46 is commonly assumed to be the judgment of believing and unbelieving mankind. However, I would argue that an explanation more consistent with the rest of Scripture is that the "ethnos" standing before Christ are unbelieving mankind just extracted from Hades and the imprisoned demonic fallen angels extracted from Tartarus / Thalassa. Christians might think that we are the sheep on the right. True, we are sheep. However, the physical reunion of Christians with Christ has already happened earlier through faith and also at the rapture by sight! The incredulous response of the sheep on the right does not sound like us Christians because we have already gone through this incredulous response to become Christians in the first place! Instead, this response is from unbelieving mankind just extracted from the fires of Hades, joyful to learn that Jesus has accepted anything good they ever did by his grace alone for their salvation. These are the lost sheep reclaimed on the right. Further, 2 Peter 2:4 also makes it clear that only fallen angels are held in Tartarus, the deepest pit of Hades. The Holy Spirit does not believe Greek mythology, but he understood the word usage of his audience. Hades refers to temporary punishment while Tartarus refers to a deeper pit from which there is no escape from condemnation and further judgment. So Hades is emptied of unbelieving mankind and Tartarus is emptied of fallen angels, demons, the goats on Jesus' left at the Great White Throne judgment.  The demons are then cast into the Lake of Fire... "PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS."  Read more in my article, Forever is Not Forever?  You Still Gotta Be Kidding Me!

    5. Robinson also spends pages and pages of words trying to protect the free will of man using similar language as C.S. Lewis.  They both conclude that God's love cannot be love unless it is freely received.  I can hardly believe that someone who is born again could even say that.  They both neglect the true condition of man apart from regeneration of the individual by the Holy Spirit.  We are dead.  We hate God and grace.  The truth is that apart from grace we are not free, but instead locked and bound to sin.  Robinson gives a nod toward this fact by noting the "surd" irrational nature of sin.  So instead it is only the finger of God upon each individual's life that sets us free to rationally take our position as God's child.  I just do not understand Robinson and the majority of Christendom's persistent defense of free will... unless of course their faith is upon their own supposed decision for God instead of receiving God's prior decision for us.

  3. The Ugly

    1. Robinson clings with a two finger hold to the good news that Christ has paid for, has redeemed, has absolved all mankind from the guilt of sin and thus will be finally and eternally saved.  However, the witness of this good faith is nearly ruined by missed observations and his mistreatment of reason and Scripture.  Furthermore, the usefulness of his hope is totally ruined by his suggested application for those who hope to minister the good news.  Robinson says on page 112, "To the man in decision -- and that means to all men, always, right up to the last hour -- [eternal] hell is every way as real a destination as heaven.  Only the man who has genuinely been confronted by both alternatives can be saved.  To preach Heaven alone, as it is asserted the universalist must, is to deny men the possibility of salvation. For salvation is a state of having chosen; and, in the moment of choice (and no man can ever say: 'I am safe, I have chosen'), both alternatives are existentially as real.  Eternal life is only for those who have passed through the valley of decision."  This suggested application for Christian ministry, ugly as it is, is at least consistent with his belief in the eschatological myth.  One might well ask Robinson how he can assert and hope in eternal salvation for himself and all mankind while he remains merely an existential subject himself?  How did he break out of the bubble of his proposed existential model to find hope to say with certainty that all mankind is saved and that eternal damnation is really an eschatological myth?  The point is that Robinson's recipe falls woefully short and anyone "saved" through his gospel would carry the baggage of neutered reason and a mythologized Bible. The Ugly.

    2. You might accuse me of the same errors because I have said that integral to the gospel are Special Strategies to reach the heart of the unbelieving as mentioned in my articles, Flying Impossible and Proverbs 26:4-5.  I will agree that some difficult Scripture can only be explained through the employment of Robinson's "myth"... if you will.  I do not like the term, but to highlight one common thread with Robinson, I will use the same word.  Robinson is dead right that at some points theologians on all sides cannot build a systematic theology of salvation and remain true to the objective statements of Scripture.  Something must budge.  Some weakness is found at the extremes of Calvinistic, Arminian, and perhaps even Christian Universalism when compared objectively with Scripture.  So back to the point: are the Pharisees who rejected Christ his sheep, lost sheep, or goats?  The objective statement of Christ to these self-righteous rebels is that they are not sheep, not even lost sheep.  So there is a perceived contradiction.  Christ says these Pharisees are not his sheep and so apparently he did not die for them, though elsewhere the Bible plainly says Christ died for all and that all mankind are the sheep of his pasture.  What is the truth?  Calvinists bend one way saying Christ did not die for all mankind.  Arminians bend the other way saying Christ died for all mankind, BUT we must apply the atonement to ourselves through faith.  Robinson's answer is that this perceived contradiction of Scripture is explained by eschatological myth, and that these unbelieving Jews are paradoxically both destined for salvation and damnation at the same time.  Sorry John, I cannot go there.  Instead I believe they are lost sheep based on Hosea 2:23.  My answer, as fully explained in my article Special Strategies and Interpretations, is that instead it is the mind of the unbeliever that contains the myth.  The Holy Spirit's inspired Word speaks to the believer and the unbeliever according to either the truth or myth that is present in their own thinking.  Proverbs 26:4-5 (WEB) says, "Don’t answer a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes."  Jesus answers the unbelieving Jews according to the myth that was in their own head!  However, there is no myth in God's head or the Scriptures!  Jesus loves all the Jews and all the gentiles, all mankind, even the rebellious!  We are all his sheep whether we are lost or found.  However, when the unbelieving Jews persisted in their stubborn rejection of their shepherd, Jesus answered them according to the foolish myth in their own head saying, "you are not my sheep."  This strategy is clearly outlined in Hosea Chapter 2.  Since the unbeliever has not yet trusted that his sins are already fully paid at the cross, then eternal damnation is the destiny he inwardly fears, despite how religious or boldly "Christian" he may appear.  Yet despite their unbelief, their sins also remain fully paid.  There is absolutely no paradox in the Scripture, the Gospel, or the mind of God, as explained in my article, Real or Apparent Paradox?, but only in the mind of the unbeliever, especially the religious unbeliever.

My clarification of the good news to mankind is instead, believe!  Your sins are forgiven!  Meet me in Heaven!  Do you deny that Christ is your Savior?  Why?  He IS your Savior!  Be thankful that Christ has paid for your sin because the destiny of all those not saved by Christ is the eternal Lake of Fire.  Why anger the Lord and hear him say, "You are not my sheep?"  Yet you must be warned that even if you give your life to religion, destroy your life with sin, and suffer an age in Hades resisting grace until the very threshold of damnation, even so, NOT YOU OR EVEN ONE of those for whom Christ died will ever enter the Lake of Fire which is "prepared for... the Devil and his angels."  Why wait?  Why destroy your life with sin?  Testify that Christ is your Savior!  Be transformed by the Holy Spirit!  However, IF Christ is not your Savior and the Savior of all mankind as you say, then nothing can save you from eternal damnation.

Robinson's gallant effort illustrates the true plight of sinful man.  We are in utterly desperate straits: you, me, and Robinson.  Apart from grace we are dead with eyes sealed shut to the truth of God's unconditional love.  However, when our eyes are opened to even a ray of the shining light of truth we cling to it with all the muscle and tenacity of a desperate mountain climber.  Even if we hang by a two finger hold at the last precipice of Mount Everest, we cannot let go of the truth we have seen.  We are sinners in desperate need of forgiveness, and in Christ there is forgiveness for sinners!  Our hands and feet may not find stable ground to answer all the questions we might have.  (Not because stable ground does not exist, but thorns, thistles, and Satan's schemes obstruct the way.)  So we hang on to what we know with hands and feet struggling.  Such is a good description of Robinson... and perhaps even ourselves.  Were we to see my mountain climber metaphor enacted on film, we would be clutching the edge of seats and the man with the two finger hold would be praised in the end!  For the Lord himself will lift us to final safety, the dark glass will be removed, we will see him face to face in glory, and he himself will praise our faith in spite of our failings.

Though I feel Robinson has erred greatly, I find great kinship with his assertion that the work of God in Christ must bear the fruit of the salvation of all mankind.  Though Robinson is accused of arrogance for this assertion, he is woefully misunderstood by his wicked unbelieving critics.  For his assertion that God must save mankind is rooted in the fact that God himself determined to do it and has already accomplished the absolution of all our sin at the cross of Christ.  Since God himself has already paid for the sins of all mankind, then who remains to condemn?  Friends, no one.  No one.  On this key point Robinson clings to the very heart of Christian salvation and hope.

If we acknowledge Robinson's grave errors and commend his tenacity for God's unconditional love, we will see that the greater arrogance is not Robinson's, but in fact Hart, Torrence, the Calvinist, the Arminian, and the religious.  They claim that their sins are forgiven, with at best hypocritical doubt or likely condemnation for the remainder of humanity.   What is the basis for their faith?  It is not founded on the bedrock of Christ!  If the grace of Christ for ALL mankind is not the hope of these arrogant, then it can only be a human condition that they themselves have supplied.  That is the arrogance of the religious.  Take care!  Arrogant rejection of grace of this kind is just the sin for which the fires of Hades burn.

Universalism + Free Will = One Very Strange Bird

The feedback I have received for my Optimism Out of Control thesis, even from objectors, has been extremely valuable.  The hard questions of others have driven me to pray for God's leading and to God's word for confirmation of the good news that truly Jesus Christ is your savior, my savior, and the savior of all mankind.

THE MOST CURIOUS OBJECTION>> However, of all the objections received the most curious is from those who also claim that all mankind is finally saved, yet who hold to man's free will, while objecting that God willed the salvation of all mankind by his gracious sovereign choice.

ME>> Wow!  I just do not get that.  The great confidence we believers have that Christ will be finally victorious in the salvation of all mankind is rooted in the fact that the Godhead willed it to be -- in spite of our rebellion!  God has prophesied in his Word that he will accomplish his mission to save of all his people.  We can have great confidence that Jesus Christ is your savior, my savior, and the savior of all mankind because GOD HAS WILLED IT TO BE!  GOD'S WILL IS THE GUARANTEE THAT IT WILL HAPPEN!

I am happy to receive this good news as well as happy to part ways with traditions that place the security of salvation in the hands of human decision.  There is no security in taking anything from God and putting it in the hand of man.  This is the difference between mere pew sitting religion and true relationship with Christ.

Unfortunately, however, brokenness has followed us even into the fellowship of those concluding that Christ does in fact love all.  As already mentioned, parting ways with tradition will likely land one in a miscellaneous bucket with some very unbiblical ideas.  For example, I've encountered some holding to reincarnation as an alternative to Hades.  How is this different from Hinduism which also believes Jesus is god and all will be saved?  Yet Hebrews 9:27 says otherwise.  I've encountered others who place more weight on human presupposition and tradition than the exegesis of Scripture.  How is this different than any man-made religion?  Jesus spoke directly about this in Mark 7:13.  The most curious combination of all is to claim that all mankind will be finally saved... because of time plus the free will of man!  God's offer of forgiveness, plus enough time is their winning salvation recipe.  Where is the grace?  Universalism plus the free will of man has got to be the strangest bird of all time.

Imagine a father with ten unruly children.  Not one of the children wants to go to bed, yet the father has determined that it is bed time.  So the father begins his work to round up the rowdy bunch.  One is turned with a simple plea while another with persuasion.  A third heads upstairs with a warning and yet another with a threat.  Several more hold out and receive spankings and discipline of various sorts.  One refuses to sleep even when forcibly placed in bed.  The point is that without the father's intervention, no one wanted to go to bed.  However, with degrees of intervention each eventually found himself in bed.

Alternatively, you could imagine a dad who sounded the bed time bell and all ten children neatly put themselves to bed while dad watched TV.... in your dreams!

Or if that illustration does not compute consider God as the quarterback throwing the football toward righteousness.  Then Satan calls the next play, tempting Adam and Eve to intercept the football with the plan to run the ball toward the opposite goal... that is to be god themselves.  Of course the whole game is all on God's sovereign football field so that He can send the Holy Spirit to tackle the rebel runners and recruit us to his own team. The point is that until the Holy Spirit tackles our deceived and unchanged hearts, we continue to run full speed away from God toward the goal line to be our own god.

The cross shows us in no uncertain terms that the unregenerate heart of mankind has no love for God.  We are unruly children with no desire to rest in bed or pursue our Heavenly Father's goal line.  No one who is unchanged will love God because we cannot love God without a changed heart.  A change, that only God can effect, is needed in our hearts to enable us to begin to love the Lord.  Furthermore, God has intended this by design so that he alone is praised as the savior of each individual and all mankind.

Perhaps Acts 4:27-28 (WEB) will help us

27) For truly, in this city against your holy servant, Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28) to do whatever your hand and your council foreordained to happen.


So yes, we make decisions.  You or I may decide to go left or to go right.  However, just because we make decisions does not mean that our will is free to love God!  Instead our will is limited to decisions that proceed from our nature.  A bear is a bear by nature and so behaves like a bear.  Likewise an unregenerate sinner is a self-lover and God-hater by nature and even if filled with worlds of religion we still hate God.  So in the case of Acts 4:27-28, all mankind, including ourselves by association, crucified the Lord Jesus Christ because we hate God by our nature.  Our will was not free to Love God, but instead our unregenerate nature was exposed as hating God... to the death.

Furthermore, we also see that behind our will and decision to kill Christ was a more primary and powerful will.  God himself ordained the crucifixion of Christ.  God himself willed these terrible events!  Why would the good God do such a thing?  God purposed to expose our heart of sin for what it actually is: enmity toward God.  He needed to do this so he could then conqueror our hatred of him and heal us with his overwhelming love and grace.

Even if we consider the baseball diamond of salvation it is God's will that has won the game, not our own.  On first base we see that God predestined his people to salvation from before the creation of the world.  Human will was not involved at all in that decision, but only God's will.  On second base we see that God chose to die on the cross, even though Peter and all our self-righteous pride refused the idea.  Human will was not involved at all in that decision either, but only God's will.  On third base we see that Jesus asked the Father to forgive us, even though no one was asking for forgiveness.  Again human will was not involved at all in that decision, but only God's will.  Finally, arriving at  home-base we see that the Holy Spirit raised us from spiritual death to spiritual life.  No one was willing or able to receive grace, but God makes each one willing at the time of his choosing.  God hits the home run and freely wills to free our wills!

Rejoice that God has freely willed to begin, continue, and perfect our salvation!

What About the Unforgivable Sin?

ONE ASKED>> What about the unforgivable sin, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit mentioned in Matthew 12:30-32, Mark 3:28-29, and Luke 12:8-10?

ME>> That is an excellent question.  First read these verses in the WEB translation,

30) He who is not with me is against me, and he who doesn’t gather with me, scatters. 31)  Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32)  Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is to come.

Matthew 12:30-32 (WEB)

28) Most certainly I tell you, all sins of the descendants of man will be forgiven, including their blasphemies with which they may blaspheme; 29) but whoever may blaspheme against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation.

Mark 3:28-29 (WEB)

8) I tell you, everyone who confesses me before men, the Son of Man will also confess before the angels of God; 9) but he who denies me in the presence of men will be denied in the presence of the angels of God. 10)  Everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but those who blaspheme against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Luke 12:8-10 (WEB)


These verses certainly communicate that there is a sin, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that is unforgivable.  So it would seem that regardless of what someone believes about Hades being temporary or not, if this sin is not forgiven, then certainly you will not be saved from eternal damnation to the Lake of Fire if you commit the unforgivable sin.

So what is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? One traditional answer can be found here, http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/blasphemy-against-the-holy-spirit.html.  

Since blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not explicitly defined, most theologies work backwards from their conclusions about salvation.  They use deductive reasoning to define blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as not satisfying their salvation formula.  For example, since Calvinists understand that the elect are guaranteed final salvation, they conclude that whatever blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is, the elect of God can never commit this sin.  This is a great hope for Calvinists, but only if you are also able to join them persuading yourself that you are elect while the majority of mankind is not elect.

Alternatively, Arminians conclude that since people are saved through their free will choice of "faith" in Christ, then the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit must be to resist the Spirit and not choose Christ with your free will.  This is also a great hope for Arminians, but only if you are able to join them and have "faith" that your "faith" is truly authentic.  So both Calvinist and Arminian thinkers have slightly different understandings of the blasphemy of the Spirit, but with the agreement that it is whatever does not satisfy their salvation formula.

Those holding to the Victorious Gospel view as I do could also use the same deductive reasoning as the Arminian and the Calvinist and conclude that the blasphemy of the Spirit is to be non-elect or to finally resist the Spirit and never place faith in Christ.  Satan and his angels fit that description very well.  So in fact I agree with both the Arminian and the Calvinist above!  However, I also believe that all mankind is elect and that all mankind, thanks to the grace of God, will be transformed either sooner or later.  So I could conclude in this way and at least match the reasoning of both the Arminian and the Calvinist above.

However, Young's Literal Translation of these verses offers further important insight.  Young's work reveals that the proper translation of the Greek word "aion" is essential to understand the blasphemy of the Spirit and the resulting punishment for committing this sin.  Read Young's translation...

He who is not with me is against me, and he who is not gathering with me, doth scatter. Because of this I say to you, all sin and evil speaking shall be forgiven to men, but the evil speaking of the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men. And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming.

Matthew 12:30-32 (YLT)

Verily I say to you, that all the sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and evil speakings with which they might speak evil, but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;

Mark 3:28-29 (YLT)

And I say to you, Every one -- whoever may confess with me before men, the Son of Man also shall confess with him before the messengers of God, and he who hath denied me before men, shall be denied before the messengers of God, and every one whoever shall say a word to the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven to him, but to him who to the Holy Spirit did speak evil, it shall not be forgiven.

Luke 12:8-10 (YLT)


Consider these important observations:

1. The blasphemy of the Spirit is not explicitly defined which is why most salvation theologies work backwards from their own viewpoint to conclude that blasphemy of the Spirit is to miss their particular salvation recipe.  This is not necessarily a wrong method of interpretation, but it is certainly biased.

2. The punishment for the blasphemy of the Spirit is not explained either, but only that this sin will not be forgiven.  There is no explicit mention of Hades or the Lake of Fire.  Many automatically think of these destinies when "eternal sin" is mentioned because it matches their viewpoint.  However, could anything else be in view?

3. The WEB translation speaks of "never" being forgiven and "eternal" sin, while Young's translation does not!  This is a very important difference that should inspire you and me to Greek study.  Is blasphemy of the Spirit an eternal sin or not?  Sadly we all have biases and preconceived ideas, even Bible translators.  Further study of the Greek word "aion" may help.  Please check out my article, Forever is Not Forever?  You Gotta Be Kidding Me!  The http://www.blueletterbible.org can also be used to examine each Greek word.

4. Jesus is teaching the same thing in all three passages, but the accounts in Matthew and Mark are the most complete, explaining that the blasphemy of the Spirit will not be forgiven in "this age" or the "age to come."  When Jesus said those words what was "this age" and the "age to come?"  Are there just two ages: now and eternity?  If so, then blasphemy of the Spirit will land you in the Lake of Fire.  However, there are not just two ages in the future when Jesus said those words.  Jesus spoke during the Jewish law age ("this age" during his life), the church / Kingdom age follows, and eternity follows last of all.

Could it be that the popular idea that the blasphemy of the Spirit is an eternal sin is wrong?  My conclusion based on the grace of Christ and a proper understanding of the Greek word "aion" as properly translated in Young's Literal Translation of the Bible is that, YES, this popular understanding is way wrong!

These verses teach that those who refuse to trust and obey Christ will not be forgiven for their unbelief in this present age, nor the age to come, meaning the Church / Kingdom Age.  Their unrepentant unbelief will not be overlooked, but will be punished in the fires of Hades until the commencement of eternity at the Great White Throne Judgment.  This also fits well with Revelation 20:5 (WEB), "The rest of the dead didn't live until the thousand years were finished."  However, since there is an age even after the "age to come," namely the New Heavens and the New Earth, forgiveness still can and will be realized at that time for everyone whose sins are paid for by the work of Christ.  The good news is that Jesus has already paid for the sins of ALL mankind.

Hey this is awesome news because it is final salvation for you, me, and our neighbor!

What Harm is There in Believing that God Will Save All Mankind?

Another tentative reader asked...

READER>> What harm is there in believing that God will save all mankind?  Why would any object?  Why is this good news even questioned?  Your Biblical arguments seem clear enough.

ME>>  Thank you for this question.  You appear to be intellectually persuaded that the Bible teaches the salvation of all mankind.  You also appear to be attracted to the prospects of the good news.  Yet perhaps your reluctance and uncertainty is due to the traditions that surround you?

Some Christian traditions object, or even strongly object, because they do not think the Bible teaches that God's grace will be victorious in the salvation of all mankind.  Furthermore, they may be concerned that this understanding could cause people to miss their understanding of the salvation message and thus be damned forever.  These are important and noble concerns and so the hard work remains to properly understand the Bible and the gospel of grace.  Repentance also is needed to confess that Jesus alone is the Savior.

I urge you to build your faith on the person of Jesus Christ and the Scriptures themselves rather than the tradition that makes you feel comfortable.  Examine the Scriptures and pray, asking God to give you confidence in his truth.

As for my answer to your question, certainly I do not think there is any harm at all in believing that God will save all mankind through the grace of Christ!  I believe this is the Biblical message and the good news of God's grace!  However, I caution you to consider another question.

What harm is there in NOT believing that God will save all mankind?

If you join the Calvinists and believe that God does not love all mankind, but in fact only loves a sub-set of human beings, can any harm come from that way of thinking?  Yes, in fact great harm!  This is just the type of blind hypocrisy that Christ came to defeat through confronting the Pharisees.  The Pharisees believed they were God's chosen people while disregarding God's love for the gentiles.  Jesus reserved his strongest rebuke for these people!  I do not think you want to hear Jesus rebuke you in the same way.  That is not a safe place to stand.

If you join the Arminians and believe that God has merely offered his love, conditioned on each individual's choice, can any harm come from that way of thinking?  Again yes, in fact great harm!  Redefining God's unconditional love to be conditioned upon the 'choice of faith' undermines the invitation to trust that God has always loved you and your neighbor.  Placing conditions on God's love perverts the Christian faith into just another pagan gentile religion of works.  Jesus loved the Jews, the Greeks, and the Romans unconditionally, dying on the cross for all mankind.  Trust in Jesus is confidence in his unconditional love.  Trust is NOT a condition to his love!  Please understand the difference. Christ was crucified once for all!  Why crucify him again?

If you join those standing on the mystery in the middle of Arminianism and Calvinism, can any harm come from that way of thinking?  Once again yes, in fact great harm!  Mystery is hardly a safe place to stand for your own salvation or the salvation of your neighbor.  Christ did not come to introduce confusion or mystery, but instead to reveal and explain the mystery of how our holy God could justify sinful man.  The good and great news is that God the Son became a man, the second Adam, our vicarious substitute, to reconcile all mankind to God.  The mystery is revealed in Christ.  The Word of God promises confident knowledge of our salvation!  Why obscure the good news with mysterious question marks?

Do you prefer the tradition that God does not love all?  Do you prefer the tradition that God's love is conditional?  Do you prefer mysterious question marks?  The great harm of these understandings of "faith" is they fall short of Biblical hope in the Biblical Jesus.  How can Jesus be pleased with this?

Look to Christ and his Word!

Why Do Some Go to Hell, Even if Temporarily?

Another reader asked...

READER>> Why do some go to Hell, even if temporarily?  You say that only the Holy Spirit can lead people to faith and repentance.  So then it is God himself who has determined to forgive all mankind from the cross in 33 A.D..  And it is the Holy Spirit who regenerates each individual at the time of his choosing to be born again and receive forgiveness.  So then why would God allow any to go to Hades / Hell?  Why wouldn't he end the suffering and bring everyone to faith immediately?

ME>>  Thank you again for this excellent question.  Confidence in God's unconditional love for all mankind defended from the Bible is a great blessing.  Yet, now our questions about brokenness, pain, sin, and judgment become even more significant.

We might have stomached these terrible things in the past, concluding that God simply does not love all, or that sinners are simply getting their just desserts, even eternal damnation.  We might find comfort believing that the masses drowned in the flood were unrepentant sinners, outside of God's love, receiving their deserved judgment.  Maybe there is comfort, but only if we forget that we are sinners just as they.  We might think Ananias and Sapphira lost their lives because they really were not Christians in the first place.  Maybe that is comfort, but have we forgotten that God also disciplines Christians?  We might try to comfort ourselves saying that Luke 16, the rich man punished in Hades, was not a true story, but a parable.  Or we might comfort ourselves saying the rich man missed his last chance to repent and so God's offer of love is rescinded.  Maybe there is comfort, if we ignore that fact that salvation is only possible through God's gracious choice.  And how do we reconcile God's love for all mankind, considering the pain suffered by Cain and Abel, Noah's family and their generation, Pharaoh and enslaved Israel, King David and Uriah, Lazarus and the rich man, the early church and the destruction of Jerusalem, the murderer and the murdered, the rapist and the raped, the aborter and the aborted, the selfish and the starving?

Joy over God's unconditional love for all mankind seems extinguished by the reality of the world around us and the nether world beyond us.

Scripture may not answer your question directly.  However, there is a solid answer concluded from our knowledge of our sinful nature apart from grace, our knowledge of God, and our knowledge of God's purpose in grace.  Consider Ephesians 2:1-7 (WEB),

1) You were made alive when you were dead in transgressions and sins, 2) in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the children of disobedience. 3) We also all once lived among them in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4) But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us, 5) even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6) and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7) that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus; 8) for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9) not of works, that no one would boast. 10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.


First we see that our sinful nature apart from grace is horribly described as,

you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the children of disobedience. 3) We also all once lived among them in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Ephesians 2:2b-3 (WEB)


This horrible description is often worse than we want to admit for ourselves and others.  We are tempted to ask "why do bad things happen to good people?"  However, the answer is that bad things never happen to good people.  There are no good people.  Though of course not all pain suffered is the direct result of our own sin and there are innocent victims.  Nonetheless, the description of our evil nature apart from grace still offends.  We might be both offended and fearful to consider that sinful mankind and this broken world really do deserve to be thrown into the refuse heap of eternal damnation.  The point is that apart from grace we are children of wrath by our birth nature.  The point is that unregenerate man prefers the suffering of Hell in order to worship self rather than worship of Christ with comfort in paradise.

I challenge you to a dangerous mental exercise.  Consider the sins that tempt you.  Imagine committing them and taking them a step further.  Take them another step further and imagine further temptations presented.  Now imagine steps even further.  Continue until you are able to see that your sinful nature and the sinful nature of all mankind are made of the same stuff as Hitler himself.  Continue until you are able to see that your unbridled sinful nature raises its defiant high hand to malign God himself.  Continue until you can confess that you would dethrone God to be your own god and the god of those around you if you could.  Unless of course you claim that you are not guilty of the crucifixion of Christ along with all mankind.  Before we boast that we know and love God we should be reminded that we crucified Christ.

So an accurate knowledge of our sinful nature apart from grace at least explains that sinful mankind deserves and even would prefer eternal damnation to worshiping Christ.  So the pain suffered in this life or even temporary punishment in the next life is at least merited by our evil nature.  So if any suffer in Hades after death, they certainly are not Christian brothers calling on God in repentance, but instead remain God haters by their birth nature.  The unbelieving regret the pain, but they have no regrets for their continued unbelief and separation from God, even through Hades.

Scary as our sinful natures may be, thankfully this is only a tiny fraction of the whole equation.  Yes, apart from grace the justice of God merits our eternal damnation.  However, thankfully there is no "apart from grace" because the cross of Christ now demands mankind's salvation.  Our Ephesians passage continues,

4) But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us, 5) even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6) and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:4-6 (WEB)


Thankfully God is greater than our sin and he is a savior with no condemnation for sinful man.  Our knowledge of God is the great hope of the gospel.  The bad news of our sinful nature is only an introduction to the good and great news of the gospel.  Ephesians 2:4 is the great contrast of the gospel, "But God!"  We are terrible sinners by nature, "But God" is a greater savior!

Okay, but why did God allow the brokenness, pain, sin, and judgment in the first place?  Why does God allow it for another instant?  Why does the Holy Spirit leave even one person unrepentant?

7) that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 2:7 (WEB)


God's purpose was and is to "show the exceeding riches of his grace."  God is showing off and demonstrating his grace in loving the unlovable and forgiving the unforgivable over time.  He is working out our salvation and the demonstration of his patient grace over thousands of years.  He could have allowed only an instant of sin, but instead he is showing off his amazing grace working with sinners over thousands of years.  The unstained, perfectly pure, glorious holiness of God Almighty has determined to show off his grace muscles in the salvation of a world full and a history full of sinful mankind through the cross of Jesus Christ.

Thus we observe that God has specifically allowed every possible combination of circumstances to show off his grace.  God has proved, is proving, and will prove that his grace is undefeated in every arena.  Consider, that God has demonstrated grace before the law with Adam and Eve and during the law with Moses.  God has demonstrated grace before the advent of Christ with Israel and after the advent of Christ with the Church.  God has demonstrated grace with the believing and also with the unbelieving.  Furthermore, God demonstrates grace toward both the living and the dead, even to the depth of Hades.  God is exercising his grace in every square inch of this broken world so that his grace alone will be praised at the restoration of all things.

Naturally we still have questions about brokenness, pain, sin, and God's judgments in Hades.  However, we also know that God's purpose is to demonstrate the victory of grace from the highest to the lowest places throughout his entire creation.  For myself, my appetite and imagination are ready now for God's final display of grace and the complete erasure of the fall and the restoration of all things.  Yet God still has further displays of his magnificent grace and patience with sinful man.  So we glorify him, trust him, and wait patiently.

Why Evangelize?

MANY>> If all mankind is saved from the Lake of Fire why even evangelize?

ME>> That is an excellent question.  We evangelize because...

1. We are commanded by Jesus to evangelize and make disciples.

Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen.

Matthew 28:19-20 (WEB)


2. Paul commanded Philemon to share his faith so that he would grow in his understanding of grace.

I pray that the faith you share will make you understand every blessing we have in Christ

Philemon 6 (ESV)


3. Love for the lost ought to move us to seek the salvation of the lost sheep, the rebellious elect.  Did you pour your heart into evangelism thinking you were adding names to the Lamb's Book of Life?  Rather, evangelism and discipleship is purposed to save the unbelieving elect from hardened hearts and punishment in Hades.

14) For the love of Christ constrains us; because we judge thus, that one died for all, therefore all died. 15) He died for all, that those who live should no longer live to themselves, but to him who for their sakes died and rose again. 16) Therefore we know no one after the flesh from now on. Even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more. 17) Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new. 18) But all things are of God, who reconciled us to himself through Jesus Christ, and gave to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19) namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses, and having committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20) We are therefore ambassadors on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21) For him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

2 Corinthians 5:14-21 (WEB)


We appeal to the unbelieving to be reconciled to God because their self-righteous hearts are at enmity toward God and they will be punished in Hades unless they repent.  Yet even though their hearts hate God, God loves both the believing and the unbelieving dearly.  After all, the work of Christ has already fully atoned for their sin.  The wrath of God is fully satisfied and he holds no eternal wrath toward any individual human -- ever!  Again He loves both the believing and the unbelieving!  Romans 5:10 also makes it very clear that the unbelieving are already reconciled to God... for God's part.  The only thing remaining is for their hearts to be changed by receiving God's love.

For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we will be saved by his life. 

Romans 5:10 (WEB)


Several people suggested that if all mankind is finally saved from the Lake of Fire then really there is no motivation or reason to be concerned about evangelism and discipleship.  This is a sad testimony to a graceless understanding of God's love.  I hope that I have answered your question and that you are motivated to tell your fellowman about the love of God.

Why Evangelize? Spiritual Warfare and Love for the Elect is Why!

Many continue to ask...

MANY>> If all mankind is saved from the Lake of Fire why even evangelize?

ME>> That is an excellent question.

Many do evangelism because they think that their efforts are adding people's names to the Lamb's Book of Life.  We have already discussed that if predestination is true in any sense whatsoever, then each individual's final destiny cannot be effected in the least by even one human word or action.  So then have I even talked myself out of any valid purpose for evangelism and disciple-making?

No!

Evangelism and discipleship cannot change any one's eternal destiny, but through God's sovereign hand, it will change one's life in this life and also during the intermediate states found in the nether world, Hades.  Christians have a new heart toward their Heavenly Father and now love God.  Non-Christians, however, continue with their sinful birth nature and only love themselves, while hating God and grace.  Christians are promised paradise at death through sweet fellowship with God and all the deceased believers that have already left this world.  Non-Christians, however, are sentenced to punishment in Hades for rejecting what is good, and in fact they have no desire for fellowship with God.

I mentioned this concept to an individual once and he remarked, "If that is true we should just party and enjoy sin because we will all be saved eventually anyway."  That comment is very sad.  Frankly, the only cure remaining for him may be to drink even more deeply of the sin he loves until he hits the floor.  Friends, God is good, his commands are good, forgiveness is good, and grace is good.  Sin, though it may entice with fleeting thrills, is not good, and will destroy our lives.

A deadly war is raging across the entire creation with Satan, the arch enemy of God, seeking to destroy God's people, mankind, through whatever means he can fabricate.  Satan began with his lies to Adam and Eve in the garden and he continues to this very day with his lies everywhere.

Remember that Revelation 12:7 (WEB) says

There was war in the sky [heaven]. Michael and his angels made war on the dragon. The dragon and his angels made war.


Surprised?  Heaven itself is soiled with Satan's rebellion and Satan has brought the battle to earth to enlist traitors here.  Yet God commands his people to follow Christ and enlist in evangelism and discipleship to join the fight against Satan and his demons.  Not convinced?

Ephesians 6:10-13 (WEB) EXPLICITLY says,

10) Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his might. 11) Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12) For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world’s rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13) Therefore put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.


The enemy is not flesh and blood.  The enemy is not mankind.  The enemy is not even unbelieving mankind.  Instead our enemies are the powers of this dark world, the Devil and his demon army.  So evangelism and discipleship are designed to fight the lies of Satan and teach mankind the truth about the love of God for all people.  How do we fight against Satan and his lies?  How do we begin?  The recipe is simple.

Revelation 12:11 (WEB) says

They overcame him because of the Lamb’s blood, and because of the word of their testimony. They didn’t love their life, even to death.


Christ invites us to take up his cross and follow him to fight against the lies of Satan by giving our everything to testify that the blood of the Lamb has paid for the sins of all mankind!  Will you join the fight?  Or sit in your religious pew?

Why is 'Free Will' an offense to grace?

Another debater asked...

READER>> I interpret your statement[s] to mean "That [believing in free will] is an offense to God in that it does a disservice of some sort to His grace." Why does it?

ME>> Claiming that free will made a distinction between you and another rather than grace is not really a disservice to God's grace, for ultimately nothing interrupts God's service and purpose, even our unbelief. But instead it is a dishonoring of God and a prideful boast toward our fellowman.

Yet you ask a good question.

Why is belief in free will an offense to God?  First, the Scriptures themselves specifically teach that attributing spiritual progress to anything but grace is contemptible in Romans 2:4 and boastful in 1 Corinthians 4:7.  Second, I have also said that if we believe persuasion at the natural level of logic and argument is sufficient, then our evangelism will create victims rather than converts.  We will neglect to pray asking God to provide the heart change that only he can provide.  One might argue that we chose to pray because of our free will choice to obey.  However, Paul gives the glory for all his effort to God in 1 Corinthians 15:10 and even our prayers as explained in Romans 8:26.  Third, you have already admitted that there are no Scriptures that explicitly teach that man has a free will, but there are verses that teach that man is spiritually dead and must be regenerated by the Holy Spirit to be alive to God.  Since this is the case, the question begs: why not humbly accept the Scriptures?  Why the resistance?  Stubborn pride, perhaps?  Fourth, if I claim that my free will made the difference in my spiritual progress, I have a boast before my fellowman; but if I acknowledge that grace made the difference, I am God's servant to point others to the only hope for their healing, God himself. Furthermore, then God can answer for himself as to why he chooses to do this or that.

READER>> To my mind it is the Calvinist's perspective which does the disservice to God's grace by limiting it to a select few.

On that we totally agree, for God's love it not limited to a subset of mankind as Calvinists ignorantly teach.

READER>> or for the deterministic universalist, by rationing God's grace to a select few now and delaying His gift to a much later time for the others.

Yes, I can understand your concern.  However, I have also said I do not like the negative connotation of the word "deterministic."  The word ruins the artistry of what God is building and designing.  Yet I also ask with you, why did God bring me to faith at age 18, others earlier, and even others later?  Or why do many die in unbelief and suffer in Hades when God's grace could stem the tide?  I do not like these facts either.  However, it is what the Scriptures teach.  So we could try to find an explanation that makes sense to human reason alone and helps us feel more comfortable, or we could give our lives to the Spirit's purposes and allow God to make his appeal through us as Paul did in 2 Corinthians 5:20 (WEB): "We are therefore ambassadors on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."

The mistake many make who reject God's sovereignty is imagining Him sitting in heaven pulling switches and using words like "deterministic" to describe his sovereign influence.  This is a mistake that improperly characterizes the beautiful work of God's grace.  God's sovereign grace is intimate and present and at work and when we obey his will then it is certain that he is at work through us for the good.

Wow! How Can You Be Ultra-Conservative and Ultra-Liberal?

Another Pastor asked

ANOTHER PASTOR>> Wow!  How can you be both ultra-conservative and ultra-liberal?

ME>> You have just vindicated my entire life for Christ.  Thank you!

American Christians, soaked in American culture, have adopted a simplistic two-party worldview.  Just like American politics teeters between the labels of Democrat and Republican, so American Christians teeter between the labels of Liberal and Conservative.  Labels can be useful.  However, in this case the labels are neither sufficiently defined nor granular enough to encompass all the issues.  The net result is the polarization of our nation and the polarization of the American church.  In fact the current polarization could be compared to the division between the legalistic Jews and licentious gentiles of Jesus' day.  The Jews could be compared with the conservative Republicans and conservative Christians of our day and the gentiles with the liberal Democrats and liberal Christians.  This is a curious repetition of history.

The problem with conservativism is that it is not conservative enough, at least according to Jesus' standards.  "Conservatives" find self-righteous pride in pointing out what is wrong and what is right.  Meanwhile they do not live up to their own standards and especially not Jesus' standards.  They (and we) sin daily!  Read Jesus' Sermon on the Mount and you will see that his standard of right and wrong blows all of our hypocrisy out of the water and into plain view.  Not one human being on the planet has met his standard of righteousness, "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect" Matthew 5:48 (WEB).  Jesus was ultra-conservative, with perfect righteousness. 

Likewise the problem with liberalism is that it is not liberal enough according to Jesus' standards either.  "Liberals" pride themselves on standing up for the minority and being the voice of all people.  However, put their (and our) philosophy to the test and you will see that their altruism falls short with arbitrary lines in the sand.  Read the gospels and you will see that Jesus' standard of inclusivity for the love he gave (not merely offered) is for every human being that ever lived for all time, from Cain to Abel and Hitler to Mother Theresa.  Not one human being on the planet has matched his passionate love for even his enemies with the words, "Father, forgive them, for they don’t know what they are doing" Luke 23:34 (WEB).  Jesus was ultra-liberal with grace and forgiveness, given to ALL mankind.

So with God's help I hope to praise the righteousness of Christ that exposes the utter sinfulness of all mankind, as well as praise the grace of Christ which brings salvation for all mankind.  My words are nothing.  Look to Jesus and you will see his righteousness and grace in perfect measure at his cross for you and all mankind!

As an aside, the message that the atonement has effectively paid for the sins of all mankind is not a "liberal" view, but in fact the Biblical view of the atonement.  Contrary to Calvinism, Christ is glorified for his incarnation as the new federal head of ALL mankind, Romans 5:18.  Contrary to Arminianism, Christ is glorified for his grace in the salvation of all mankind without any human condition, Romans 5:18.  To say otherwise is to offend either the glory of his incarnation or his grace.  To say otherwise is to divide the very body of Christ or to redefine faith to be a work rather than simply trust.  To say otherwise is to leave the high ground of Christ, falling to the "left" or "right" with simplistic "liberal" or "conservative" thinking and debate.

Wow... so what do you really believe?

Others> Wow... so what do you really believe?  If you have parted ways with contemporary orthodoxy, then what else have you parted with?

Me> Yes I have parted ways with both Arminianism and Calvinism.  However, I hope that I have not unnecessarily parted ways with the thoughtful conclusions and hard-won discoveries of Christians through the ages.  I seek to be a Christian, not a contrarian!  Disagreement over one point, whether major or minor, is not reason to disagree carte blanche.  For example, some claim that there is no punishment in Hell after death for the unbelieving because a God of love would never do such a thing.  However, the Scripture plainly says otherwise in Luke 16:19-31.  Others abandoned the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity to claim that God is one and only one person and became Unitarian Universalists.  Sadly the Unitarian Universalist movement has lost all anchor to Scripture.  They have abandoned the good conclusion that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three distinct persons, yet one God, Deuteronomy 6:4, Romans 9:5, Acts 5:3-4.

In short, I believe...

  1. In one true God, existing eternally as one God in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, John 14:9-21, who is in essence spirit, John 4:24, light, 1 John 1:5, and love, 1 John 4:8.
  2. That the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments are the unique, inerrant, inspired Word of God in the original autographs, and the final authority in all matters of faith and conduct, 2 Timothy 3:16.
  3. In the sovereignty and active rule of God in creation, the fall, history, revelation, miracles, prophecy, redemption, and final judgment, Romans 8:20-21.
  4. That man was created by God in His image, but that since Adam's fall, all men are sinful and by nature deserve God's wrath, Ephesians 2:3.
  5. That Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, fully human and fully divine, eternally existing as God, yet born in time of a virgin, and that He lived a sinless and perfect life, 2 Timothy 2:5.
  6. In the historic death of Jesus as the full and only atonement, guaranteeing loving forgiveness for the sins of all mankind, in His bodily resurrection from the dead, and in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, 1 John 2:1-2.
  7. That all mankind is justified by the loving grace of God and redeemed on the basis of the death of Christ, which is received through faith, Ephesians 2:8-9.
  8. That the Holy Spirit is the effective agent in regeneration, bringing individuals to faith and transformed lives, 2 Corinthians 3:18.
  9. In one universal church, Christ's Body, to which all believers belong, and in particular
    churches accountable to God, led by elders who rule in doctrine and discipline,
    while acknowledging individual conscience, 1 Timothy 5:17, 1 John 2:27.
  10. That believing mankind is rewarded in paradise after death, while unbelievers suffer punishment in Hades after death merited by their sinful nature and their rejection of the grace of Christ, Luke 16:19-31.
  11. In the future, visible, physical return of the Lord Jesus Christ in glory, Titus 2:13.
  12. In the final resurrection of redeemed mankind to the enjoyment of God forever, and the damnation of those excluded from the Book of Life to the Lake of Fire prepared for the Devil and his angels for the ages of the ages, Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:10.

Curiously it is rare to find a Christian that says they are 100% Calvinist or 100% Arminian.  Most Christians find some dispute with these theologies and so find an alternative compromise.  Yet will most Christians be willing to seriously consider the creed above as I have defended from the Scripture?  Will you return with me to the historic faith and Biblical gospel that Christ is the Savior of all mankind?

Yes, but Even Harder Questions!

SELF>> After lengthy discussion with others and reading various books, I have found that there is quite a range of thought even among Christian Universalists.  In fact, sadly, the divisions between them in faith and fellowship might even be deeper than between those of traditional Christianity.  Most Christian Universalists have observed, as I, that the Greek word "aion" is at times wrongly translated "eternal" in the English Bible.  Some are silent about the salvation of fallen angels, while others have concluded that even Satan will be saved, to which I am not persuaded.  Most have respected and protected inspiration and strove for reasonable interpretation of the given Word, but some have even violated the Holy Spirit suggesting that difficult verses are better explained as human error.  Many have even further differences of various natures, no doubt influenced by the varied traditions and experience from which they came.

Through this study a number of additional questions have come to mind.  None of the questions raised have changed my certain position that Jesus is the Savior of all mankind.  Yet the questions are very interesting to consider with some of them pertaining to the primary point, while others are secondary.

ME>> Questions and answers follow.

1. When did Satan and his demons fall into sin?

Did Satan and his angels begin their rebellion before Day 1, during Day 1-7, or after Day 7?  Having been schooled in the 7 day creation camp I would have quickly said sometime during or after Day 1-7.  However, Ernst Stroeter argues in his book The Gospel of God's Reconciliation of All in Christ that Genesis 1:1-2 is better interpreted to mean God first created out of nothing and then the Earth became formless.  Stroeter speculates that the initial creation and rebellion of Satan took place in the first two verses of the Bible over an unspecified age.  In his favor, Job 38:6-7 suggests that the angels, "sons of God," were an audience to creation.  So perhaps Days 1 to 7 are the beginning of God creating a home for mankind from the wasteland remaining after Satan's rebellion.  Stroeter's view gives us pause to recognize that God has been working his plans out over long periods of time, from age to age.  Was there an age of angels and Satan's rebellion in Genesis 1:1-2?  Job 38:4 (WEB) ought to keep all of us from dogmatism on this point, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if you have understanding."  Really the question is a sidebar compared to our larger question of Arminianism and Calvinism versus the Gospel.

2. Where is the place "Tartaroo," mentioned in 2 Peter 2:4?

Tartaroo means to "throw down to Tartarus," a place of punishment deeper and more severe than Hades in Greek mythology as explained here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartarus.  Does the Holy Spirit then believe in Greek mythology?  Hardly.  Instead, the Holy Spirit apparently is distinguishing between punishment in Hades versus Tartarus using terms familiar to his audience, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades.  Both these locations are in the netherworld after death beyond the vision of the living.  Why would the Holy Spirit reference Greek mythology?  Tartaroo is mentioned only one time in all of Scripture with only fallen angels mentioned as being held there for future judgment.  I suggest that the reason the Holy Spirit uses the terms of Hades and Tartarus is to highlight the radical differences of these two places.  They differ in the severity of their punishments as well as the nature and destinies of their inhabitants.

Unbelieving humans, creatures made in God's image and redeemed by the blood of Christ, are punished in Hades, Luke 16:23.  Yet mercy is extended to them even there, 1 Peter 4:6.  And most importantly final salvation is graciously given, Matthew 25:40,46 and Revelation 20:14-15.  However, some fallen angels, powerful creatures, that God does not help, Hebrews 2:16, are already held in Tartarus for future judgment because of the grave nature of their sin, and they will be sentenced to the Lake of Fire for The Ages of The Ages according to Matthew 25:41,46, Jude 6, and Revelation 20:10.

This observation, if correct, may serve to help those who are confident that all mankind is finally saved, but who wrongly conclude that even human beings are sentenced to the Lake of Fire.  The Scripture is clear that the Lake of Fire is explicitly "prepared for the devil and his angels" Matthew 25:41 (WEB).  The Lake of Fire is not prepared for human beings!

3. When is the Sheep and Goat judgment of Matthew 25:31-46?

The answer to this question is a significant component of my proposed model of understanding.  I have proposed that Matthew 25:31-46, Daniel 12:1-4, and Revelation 20:11-15 are all the same event: The Great White Throne Judgment.  The book of Revelation explains that The Great White Throne Judgment is just before the commencement of the New Heavens and the New Earth.  Matthew 25:31 (WEB) also says, "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory."  So Matthew 25:31 certainly seems parallel with Revelation 20:11.  Other possible timings for Matthew 25:31 could include God's judgment on the Jews in 70 A.D. or a judgment that is working itself out through the Christian era.

If the Sheep and Goat judgment is not The Great White Throne Judgment, then it would seem that the Sheep and Goat Judgment comes first.  If so that could allow one to conclude that the subjects at the Sheep and Goat Judgment are all human and that the Goats, if they are unbelieving humans, are being sent to an eon of punishment in Hades.  Thus, they could still be saved at the Great White Throne Judgment afterward.  However, the "Throne of his glory" language strongly suggests that the Sheep and Goat judgment is equal to The Great White Throne Judgment.  There is a strong sense of finality to this judgment.  Also Matthew 25:41 says "aionian fire."  This does not sound like Hades, but instead the Lake of Fire at The Great White Throne Judgment.  Most Christian Universalists argue that "aionian" is temporal even in this case.  They are motivated to make "aion" mean temporal even in this case because they think the "ethnos" is human only, therefore unbelievers must be released from the Lake of Fire sometime beyond the end of Scripture.  However, I think the better understanding is that human beings never go to the Lake of Fire in the first place because it is "prepared for the devil and his angels."  This understanding also acknowledges many who object to Christian Universalism saying that the parallel construct of Matthew 25:46 cannot be divided into both "eternal life" and "temporal punishment."  These objectors make an important point.  We should all acknowledge that "aion" means the duration of the subject in view.  When Hades is in view, the "aion" is an age.  However, when God is in view, "aion" is eternal.  In this case the subject in view is the Lake of Fire, which has no explicit end as far as the revealed Word of God.  But again, this better understanding is aided by the observation that fallen angels are the Goats on the left to be cast into the Lake of Fire.  Furthermore, Matthew says that Christ will "sit" on his throne.  This is the picture of a king who has conquered and finished his work.  Hebrews 1:3 tells us that Christ "sat down" after finishing his work of redemption.  Hebrews 10:13 tells us his enemies will be made a footstool.  In Matthew 25 and Revelation 20 Christ will "sit" on his glorious throne to judge and complete the footstool!

Daniel 12:1b (WEB) is also noteworthy when Michael tells Daniel, "...Your people will be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book."  Who is "your people?"  Many think that Daniel's people are believing mankind and the unbelieving are not his people.  However, since the man saying these words is Michael, the Archangel, it is much more likely that Michael is recognizing Daniel as a leader of humanity.  Thus "Your people" is all mankind in contrast to the people of Michael, the angel kind.

Furthermore, since the Bible is God's message of hope to his people, it would seem very odd to me if human beings were still undergoing punishment at the end of the Bible, much less in the Lake of Fire which is prepared for the Devil and his angels.  Instead Christian reason based on the grace of God and our Biblical evidence leans heavily on the side that punishment for all mankind, whether believing or unbelieving, ends with the emptying of Hades.  Revelation 20:15 makes it clear that the fate of those standing before The Great White Throne is determined solely by the Lamb's Book of Life.  Those not named are cast into the Lake of Fire, and inversely those who are named are finally saved.  I proved this further in my article, Revelation 20:11-15.  So can human action add our names to this book?  Hardly.  Our names have been written there from before the creation of the world, Ephesians 1:4!  Only through faith in the grace of Christ can you be persuaded of this good news.  1 Corinthians 15:55 (WEB) shouts the same hope saying, "Death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?"

The timing of Matthew 25:31-46 is also significant because I propose that fallen angels will be judged at this event and that they are in fact the Goats on Jesus' left.  So will fallen angels really be there?  Let's turn to that question next.

4. When will fallen angels be judged?

I have frequently referenced 2 Peter 2:4 (WEB) which says, "For if God didn’t spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness to be reserved for judgment."  The key point to note is that these angels are being "reserved for judgment."  They are in Tartarus now, but they will be escorted to stand before Christ for judgment.  When will this happen?  The answer is in Jude 6 (WEB), "Angels who didn’t keep their first domain, but deserted their own dwelling place, he has kept in everlasting bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day."  The imprisoned fallen angels of Tartarus will stand before the Lord for Judgment on the Great Day.  When is the Great Day?  Friends, everything points to The Great White Throne Judgment!  On that Great Day unbelieving mankind will be safely extracted from their eon of punishment in Hades and the imprisoned fallen angels will be extracted from Tartarus to stand before King Jesus.  Matthew 25:31-46, Daniel 12:1-4, and Revelation 20:11-15 tell the rest of the story.

5. Will fallen angels be finally saved?

Thus far I have shown that fallen angels, demons that is, are being held for judgment and that they will be judged on that Great Day.  I have concluded that this Great Day is the Sheep and Goat Judgment also called The Great White Throne Judgment.  Yet, a number of Universalists propose that Christ's reconciliation of all includes the final reconciliation of fallen angels, the demons and even Satan himself.  Their conclusion is based on the "all" of Colossians 1:20.  Furthermore, since some think that human beings are sentenced to the Lake of Fire and yet finally saved, then perhaps fallen angels will also be finally saved.  However, there may be a better answer.

Colossians 1:20 (WEB) does say, "and through him to reconcile ALL things to himself by him, whether things on the earth or things in the heavens, having made peace through the blood of his cross."

However, consider a few more verses concerning the judgment of fallen angels.

Genesis 3:15b (NIV), "...he will CRUSH your head..."

Matthew 25:41 & 46a (WEB), "Then he will say also to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS." and "These will go away to eternal [aionian] punishment..."

Hebrews 2:16 (WEB), "For most certainly, he DOESN'T GIVE HELP TO ANGELS, but he gives help to the offspring of Abraham."

2 Peter 2:4 (WEB), "For if God didn’t spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness to be RESERVED FOR JUDGMENT."

Jude 6 (WEB), "Angels who didn’t keep their first domain, but deserted their own dwelling place, he has kept in everlasting bonds under darkness for the JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY."

Revelation 20:10 (WEB), "The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever [THE AGES OF THE AGES]."

Revelation 21:8 (WEB), "But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, THEIR part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Revelation 21:8 cannot be speaking of all sinners, but only those whose names are not in the Lamb's Book of Life.  If it is speaking of all sinners then no one could be saved, ever, because we have all committed these sins and still commit them.  Instead this verse is speaking of those who have committed these sins and whose sins are not redeemed, the Devil and his angels.  I have explained this further in my article, How Can You Say Revelation 21:8 Does Not Apply to Humans?

First, the greatest joy of my wrestling match with grace was to learn that God is the redeemer of all mankind.  Hopefully more and more people change their minds to rest fully in God's love for all human beings.  There is work enough to be done to persuade our fellowman to let go of their religion and recognize the serious errors in tradition and the mistranslation of "aion."  There is work enough to be done to persuade our fellowman that they are truly loved by God, their sins are paid, and it is now impossible for us to be eternally damned.

Paul's great hope for himself, the church, and mankind is climaxed in 1 Corinthians 15:55 (WEB), "Death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?"  This points directly to the end of death for mankind and the safe release of those punished in Hades.  Unbelieving mankind then finally receives grace at The Great White Throne Judgment.  The Bible rings with the message of God's love for mankind.  Rejoice!!!

So are Satan and his angels finally saved?  The whole force of the Bible message is the history of the redemption of mankind, those created in the image of God and redeemed by the precious blood of Christ.  The pages of Scripture end with the Devil and his angels tormented in the Lake of Fire for "The Ages of The Ages."  Satan really is an enemy quite beyond our strength.  His fall was designed to serve God's purpose, the demonstration of grace to us, his people.  There is a relevant parallel I have proposed between God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit versus Satan, The Beast, and The False Prophet that may further help us understand God's purpose.  Read about it in my article, Revelation 20:10.  So does the "all" of Colossians 1:20 include Satan?  Is there an end to "The Ages of The Ages?"  That is in God's hands.

6. Can fallen angels be "resurrected," or enter the "second death?"

Some have argued that since angels are spirit beings and cannot die, they cannot be resurrected or enter a second death.  If they did not die a first time, how can they die a second time?  Good question.  I have noted elsewhere that some believe that fallen angels did live embodied on the earth during the time of Noah.  It is suggested that their terrible sin in Genesis 6 precipitated the flood.  These may be the wicked angels under discussion in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6.  If that is the case then this objection about angel resurrection and second death is easily answered.  These wicked angels did live and die in the body and they will be raised for final judgment.  We should also note that that Holy Spirit says in Matthew 25:32 that all the "ethnos" are "assembled" or "gathered" before Him.  This language certainly accommodates both the retrieval of all his subjects whether from Hades or Tartarus.  Revelation 20:11-15, however, uses the language of retrieving the "dead" from the sea [Thalassa] and Hades.  Perhaps the demons in Tartarus did live embodied on the earth and so it is fair to refer to them as the "dead" in Tartarus.  Or perhaps the "dead" is only explicit mention of the human beings in Hades and the fallen angels in Tartarus are only implied.  Either way, Jude 6 makes it clear that these fallen angels will be present to give account and receive their sentence to the Lake of Fire on that Great Day when they enter the "second death."  Furthermore, you are right that the Lake of Fire is the "second death."  However, you can see that the Bible plainly says that Satan and his angels are sent there.  So whether it is fair to say that angels can die or be resurrected I cannot say.  However, we can say that Satan and his angels are sent to the "second death."  Read even more convincing proofs in my article, Fallen Angels at the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:13 does in fact say that the inhabitants of Tartarus will be raised from the dead!

7. How long will unbelieving mankind suffer in Hades?

Biblical Christianity does teach that even though unbelievers are punished in Hades that in the end all mankind will be finally saved.  However, we might also ask how long will unbelievers be punished in Hades?  Will they all be in agony the entire time until released at The Great White Throne Judgment?  That is a long time!  I have suggested elsewhere that Hades is a fit punishment for the unregenerate and that there will be no early exit or any exit at all until the grace of God opens the gate.  Hades should not be viewed as the punishment of good people who love God, but instead the punishment of unregenerate people who hate God.  Of course it would be very foolish to disregard Christ and make plans to suffer in Hades expecting to be saved eventually.  If anyone will suffer the entire duration of Hades it would certainly be the one with a "Who cares about Christ, send me to Hell" attitude.  However, this is enough of my speculation.  Let's consider the few Scriptures that speak to the subject.

Psalm 139:8 (WEB), " If I ascend up into heaven, you are there. If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, you are there!"  Foremost we see that David understood that God's caring love continues even for those punished in Hades.

Luke 16:24-26 (WEB),

24) He cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame."  25)  But Abraham said, "Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in the same way, bad things. But here he is now comforted, and you are in anguish. 26)  Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that no one may cross over from there to us." 


The agony of Hades will be great.  Plus, the gulf fixed between the punishments of Hades and Paradise cannot be spanned with human effort.

Matthew 16:17-19 (WEB),

17) Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18)  I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19)  I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven; and whatever you release on earth will have been released in heaven." 


Curiously Jesus seems to assign some role of forgiveness to the church in the realms of both Heaven and Earth.

1 Peter 3:18-19, 4:5-6 (WEB),

18) Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit, 19) in whom he also went and preached to the spirits in prison,... 5) They will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6) For to this end the Good News was preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed as men in the flesh, but live as to God in the spirit. 


Even more significantly Jesus preached the good news personally to the wicked dead so that they could "live as to God in the spirit."  Wow, what does that mean?

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 (WEB),

14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15) For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep. 16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first, 17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever. 18) Therefore comfort one another with these words.


Clearly the deceased Christians are raised to life first, but what about the deceased unbelievers, the wicked dead?

Revelation 20:5 (WEB), "The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."  The deceased unbelievers are not raised to life until the Great White Throne Judgment.  So are they in agony for the entire duration in Hades from now until the end?  The verses above confirm that God loves and cares for mankind even in Hades and that according to 1 Peter 4:5-6 even conversion might be possible in Hades.

Matthew 25:37-40 (WEB),

37) Then the righteous will answer him, saying, "Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? 38)  When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? 39)  When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?" 40)  The King will answer them, "Most certainly I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me." 


I have suggested elsewhere that the surprise of these righteous, the sheep on Jesus' right, about their salvation does not sound like those who are already Christians.  Christians have already been reigning with Christ.  We would not have questions like these people!  Instead these are unbelieving mankind just released from Hades, incredulous over God's grace, and now believing!

Protestants have recoiled from Catholic and other speculation about the afterlife and typically have over-simplified afterlife analysis to death, judgment, and the destiny of Heaven or Hell. Certainly I would agree that Hades is quite unlike Catholic notions of Purgatory.  Catholics have speculated beyond the Scriptures.  Yet Protestants have likewise overlooked some valuable Biblical data.  So what can we conclude from the above verses?  I am convinced that God loves all mankind, even the unbelieving punished in Hades.  I am also convinced that we should avoid speculation beyond the Scriptures.  We should also avoid denial of the information given to us in Scriptures.  The point from even one verse of Scripture is truly spoken, no matter how small it may appear.

8. Is salvation through a "limited atonement" of Christ possible?

Alternative to the Victorious Gospel, others add up the Scripture to say that Christ's atonement is limited and purposed for only a small subset of humanity.  Those humans that Christ did not die for are then sentenced with the Devil and his angels to the Lake of Fire for eternity.  Friends, I have worked as hard as possible to remain faithful to the whole of Scripture to understand the things Jesus has revealed to us about the future of salvation.  While error, no doubt, will be found in my reasoning and Scripture reference, to say that Christ did not die for all mankind is a blatant abuse of Scripture, the Incarnation, and the Atonement.  The "L" of T.U.L.I.P. as understood by John Calvin is a heresy and corruption of the very gospel of Jesus Christ.  We might possibly say, the atonement is limited, it is limited to ALL mankind, and NOT extended to fallen angels.  Yet if you reject Christ through adhering to a supposed "limited atonement," apparently you are not elected to believe the truth and apparently are not his sheep.

9. Is salvation of a subset by 'free will' faith in Christ possible?

Again, alternative to the Victorious Gospel, others say that Christ did die for all mankind to make the offer of forgiveness available for everyone to receive it by their free will choice of faith in Christ.  Now this false gospel instead strikes at the heart of the definitions of "grace" and "faith."  The Bible defines God's grace as his unmerited favor, his prior love of his enemies, and his reconciliation of mankind prior to our faith.  The point is that grace is not an offer, but it is already given to his chosen people.  To say otherwise is to add human condition to the unconditional love of God.  To say otherwise is to trade Christianity for religion.  The Christian faith is to simply trust, to believe, that Christ has in fact paid for our sins, and be changed -- period.  There is nothing potential about Christ's work on the cross, but instead it is the greatest achievement!  He said "It is finished."  The sin debt of mankind is paid!  Man's will is certainly not free to determine whether or not our sins are paid.  I say again, man's will is certainly not free to determine whether or not our sins are paid.  Our sin debt is paid!  Again if you reject Christian faith in favor of free will, apparently you are also not elected to simply believe and apparently are not his sheep.

10. Are there "effective" and "ineffective" parts of the Atonement?

Regular Baptist theology says that Christ died for all mankind in one dimension, but for only a subset of mankind in another dimension.  The Arminian and the Calvinist above offer a simple view that either Christ died or all or that he did not die for all.  The Scripture, however, makes it plain that Christ died for all mankind, yet not all are saved from punishment after death.  So the Regular Baptist explains this apparent conundrum by suggesting that the atonement has both "effective" and "ineffective" components.  They say that Christ died for all in one sense, but this sense is "ineffective" to finally save.  However, in another sense he died only for believers, and this sense is "effective" when combined with the human condition of "faith."  They say that God's love is unconditional for all, but the condition of faith is needed for God's love to be effective for the saved.  They say that the believer's decision to trust Christ then applies the blood of Christ to their account.  Stop!  Consider the concept of applying the blood of sacrifice for a moment.  Under the Old Covenant, the priests killed the animal of sacrifice and then applied, smeared the blood on the altar for the forgiveness of their sins.  So are Christians like priests of the Old Covenant both killing Christ on the altar and then applying his blood to our own sins?  God forbid!  The very thought is the greatest offense to grace and the New Covenant.  Christ is our great high priest who offered himself and applied his own blood to our sin for our forgiveness.  The heart of the New Covenant is that Christ is the better priest who accomplished everything for us -- apart from any condition that we could ever provide.

Hebrews 10:9-14 (WEB),

9) Then he has said, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He takes away the first, that he may establish the second, 10) by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11) Every priest indeed stands day by day serving and often offering the same sacrifices which can never take away sins, 12) but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God, 13) from that time waiting until his enemies are made the footstool of his feet. 14) For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.


Friend, you can try to be your own priest or you can simply trust that Jesus Christ has accomplished the salvation of his people forever with "one offering."

You Are a Heretical Pope Pronouncing Salvation Without Faith!

OBJECTOR>> You Are a Heretical Pope Pronouncing Salvation Without Faith!

ME>> Just to be clear there will be no one in Heaven without faith in Christ or without love for God and mankind.  Heaven is the eternal home of the glorified redeemed people of God.  There will be no death, sin, mourning, crying, pain, or unbelief!  Instead there will be life, perfection, joy, celebration, health, and unwavering trust.  There will be unending love from God to us and from us to God and each other.  There will be eternal praise and worship by every single inhabitant of Heaven for Jesus, our humble savior, King of Kings, God Almighty!

The confusion is simply this.  Many have been led astray to believe that their choice of faith in Christ is the condition to God's unconditional love.  Friends, faith is not the condition to God's love, but instead faith is trust in his unconditional love!  Modern "evangelical" heresy has redefined "faith" to be the ticket to Heaven that you provide.  This twisted gospel has taken the spotlight off of Christ and his gracious decision and focused it on man and our decision.  The Scriptures proclaim that Christ will be exalted as the gracious savior of every individual and ALL mankind.  Christ will be exalted, not human will!

Christian faith of course is a decision, but it is the decision trust that Christ loved us before we loved him, in fact while we hated God.  It is the decision to believe that Christ chose to die on the cross in our place, even though we chose to crucify him.  It is the decision to receive the gift of forgiveness already given, instead of begging for forgiveness.  It is the decision to know that our eternal destiny is not in jeopardy or conditioned on our choices, but instead it is secure and guaranteed through the choice that Christ already made at the cross.  It is the decision to know by faith that we were chosen for grace before the creation of the world.  Our faith certainly did not cause that, but instead faith enables us to the see this good news.  Faith, properly defined, is our decision to live a life trusting that Christ already gave us his eternal love at the cross.  Our decision does not change God's heart for us, but it certainly does change our hearts for God.  Have you made the decision to believe?  I pray that you have!  Friends, it is a simple decision, though no one will decide without the touch from the Holy Spirit.

And if you do trust Christ, then you must also see that Jesus also loves all mankind, even those who have not yet trusted him.   Just as Christ loved you and guaranteed your destiny before you believed, so he also loves all mankind and has guaranteed their happy destiny.  Faith never changed anyone's eternal destiny, but instead it changes our hearts and opens our eyes to see our wonderful destiny from God.  Faith is not your personal ticket to Heaven, but instead faith is eyes opened to see our Heavenly Father's love and his eternal happy home given to all his people!

You still might accuse me of saying that Heaven is guaranteed even for the unbelieving.  In my defense the Scriptures do say concerning the unbelieving, "For what if some were without faith? Will their lack of faith nullify the faithfulness of God?  May it never be! Yes, let God be found true, but every man a liar. As it is written, 'That you might be justified in your words, and might PREVAIL when you come into judgment' " (Romans 3:3-4 WEB) and also "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29 WEB).  Even so, just to be clear my position properly stated is that ONLY believers will ever gain entrance to Heaven.  It just happens I also believe it will be IMPOSSIBLE for even one human being to pass through the final judgment of Jesus Christ without an immediate wholehearted response of faith and worship.  The Great White Throne Judgment will be the happiest surprise for the Sheep on Jesus' right.  Read the account yourself in Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15.

Who are the Sheep on Jesus' right?  Obviously they are not Christians!  Christians would not evidence the surprise of these people over their salvation!  Christians already believe and have confidence in our salvation through Jesus Christ.  At this point in the story we Christians already had our joyful reunion with Christ raptured in the air!  Do you think we will face doubt and judgment at the Great White Throne after that?  Instead, Revelation 20:11-15 and Jude 6 make it plain that the wicked dead human beings are finally extracted from Hades and the imprisoned fallen angels held for judgment are extracted from Thalaasa to stand before the Great White Throne Judgment.  The Sheep on Jesus' right are the wicked dead human beings, now finally with eyes opened to see their savior and receive grace.  The Goats on Jesus' left, however, are the demons now finally sentenced to the Lake of Fire for The Ages of The Ages as explicitly stated in Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:10,15.

Furthermore, this is not a second chance salvation!  Instead the gracious God of the Universe will one day determine that the time for mankind's unbelief, pain, and punishment is officially and finally over!  Praise God!  Presently, most of mankind creeps along through this life with eyes lifted no higher than the mud that we crawl through.  However, on that Great Day the Lord of Glory will lay the earth bare, roll up the Universe like a tattered cloth, and empty even the depths of Hell itself.  While unbelievers stumble like blind men now, there will be no veil between us and Christ on that day.  Nor will there be any trace of unbelief among God's people standing in front of the Lord in all his Glory.  Because of grace alone, Christ will read the roll call from the Book of Life and find the name of EVERY human being penned with the ink from his own veins and purchased from before the creation of the world.  The God of all grace will be finally and fully revealed in blazing glory to ALL his chosen people, that is ALL mankind, and worshiped by ALL!

I am certainly not a Pope.  However, you will have to decide whether it is heretical to believe that Jesus signed, sealed, and delivered salvation for ALL mankind at his cross when he breathed his last and said, "It is finished."  Friends, you can believe now or believe then for there is no escape from the love of Jesus Christ and his victory!

You Are Wrong About Matthew 25:31-46!

One unconvinced reader said...

READER>> Your understanding of Matthew 25:31-46 is wrong.  The passage is saying that those on the left of Jesus will be punished WITH the Devil and his angels in the Lake of Fire.  Whereas you are saying that those on his left ARE the Devil and his angels.

ME>> First you correctly understand my view.  Thank you for that.  I do believe the passage is best understood in the context of the whole of Scripture that those on Jesus' left, those cast into the Lake of Fire, are the Devil and his angels.  Now I will be the first to admit that there are some curious facets to this understanding.

1) We most naturally assume that when Jesus gathers the nations before him that he is talking about only human beings and human nations.  The Greek word "ethnos" is used in the Bible to mean "a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus, for example the human family."  Thus when he divides the people into their categories of sheep and goats, we naturally conclude that some humans are sheep while the remainder are goats. It appears that only part of humanity is saved from the Lake of Fire while the rest are eternally lost.  Arminians and Calvinists both agree on this point, though they disagree as to how people are saved.

However, do not too quickly conclude that "ethnos" mean human "ethnic" groups.  It should be noted that the meaning of the word "ethnos" is also used to mean "the people, in contrast to their king."  The first denotation in the Vines dictionary also indicates, "a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together: a company, troop, swarm."  I would suggest that at the Sheep and Goat Judgment these alternate denotations are closer to the mark.  In fact we can be certain of this because 2 Peter 2:4 makes it plain that some angels are imprisoned now being held for future judgment.  Jude 6 and Revelation 20:11-15 also make it plain that angels will be extracted from Tartarus / Thalassa to stand before the Great White Throne at final judgment.

King Jesus will summon all his subjects before him for final judgment and this includes both human and angelic people.  We humans often neglect to consider Jesus' angelic subjects because they are most often invisible to us.  However, angels are also people subject to King Jesus and will likewise stand before his judgment throne.  What word other than "ethnos" would the Holy Spirit use to identify a mixed body of his subjects that includes both human and fallen angelic people?  "Ethnos" is the word he chooses!  The bad news for fallen angels is that they do not have a vicarious substitute for the condemnation they must receive.  The good news for us is that Jesus became a human and so his work of atonement applies to all humans.

2) You say that in Matthew 25:41 Jesus says to human beings about to be damned that they will be sentenced with the Devil and his angels to Eternal Fire.  I will concede that the sentence structure is odd and lends to your view.  Why would Jesus use the demonstrative pronoun first and the proper name second?  Typically, for clarity, the proper noun is first and the pronoun second.  Consider three possible explanations.

First, the Holy Spirit may have allowed an awkward construct to parallel the structure of verse 34.  Second, perhaps the phrase "which is prepared for the devil and his angels" is better understood not as a quote to the unredeemed, but as an explanation to the redeemed.  Third, with Satan already damned to the Lake of Fire and his demons arraigned on Jesus' left, perhaps Matthew 25:41 is not awkward at all.  Read my article Your Thoughts on Matthews Meaning of 'Aionian Fire?'

If you continue to disagree, then you must provide a reasonable explanation as to why Jesus only lists the Devil and his angels as those for whom Eternal Fire is prepared.  Why does the Holy Spirit say explicitly that the Lake of Fire is "prepared for the Devil and his Angels?"  Why doesn't he say prepared for unbelieving mankind? He says the Devil and his Angels because that is who the Lake of Fire is prepared for and no one else!

3) Finally I also concede that it is odd that the Devil and his angels would say in Matthew 25:44 (WEB), "Then they will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn’t help you?' "  We might think that at this point the Devil and his angels would recognize their rebellion, concede their doom, and manifest their hatred of Christ with a violent display of malice as they are damned to the Lake of Fire.  It is hard to imagine the Devil or the demons with their awesome intelligence speaking such a lame excuse.

Yet in spite of their awesome intelligence, we must remind ourselves that Satan is not only The Great Deceiver, but also The Greatly Deceived.  For Satan said, "I will ascend into heaven! I will exalt my throne above the stars of God! I will sit on the mountain of assembly, in the far north," (Isaiah 14:13b WEB) and the Lord says, "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty. You have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor," (Ezekiel 28:17a WEB).

Though Satan was and continues to be an enemy far beyond our strength, his great pride has left him greatly deceived to the very end, along with all his demonic followers.  We should note also that the demonic leaders, Satan, The Beast, and The False Prophet are already cast into the Lake of Fire before the Great White Throne Judgment.  So the lame excuses are coming from their demonic underlings just arraigned from Tartarus / Thalassa.

If this explanation does not satisfy your objection, then I have a corresponding question for you.  I believe the sheep on the right are the redeemed unbelieving just extracted from the end of their punishment in Hades.  But, traditional understanding says that these sheep are those who believed before their death.  However, the confirmation of the salvation of believers has already happened though faith in Christ many years earlier!  Yet these people say, "37) Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? 38)  When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? 39)  When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?'" (Matthew 25:37-39 WEB).

If these people are believers, why are they incredulous about their salvation and ignorant of these basic facts after already spending years of glorious fellowship with Christ?  If you are concerned about the lame objections of the goats, you should also be concerned about the objections of these sheep.  You could further argue that these sheep cannot be unbelievers because they are praised for doing good.  However, these newly believing sheep did not yet understand, like we Christians already understand, that we actually serve Christ when serving others. Thus they are amazed that the tiniest good they did is now accepted by the grace of Christ, not that the good outweighed the bad.  All these questions are easily answered when we see that these sheep are new born believers just extracted from Hades with their eyes just opened, incredulous over the love of Christ who has also accepted them by his grace.

The redeemed should take warning that our sinful nature is likewise vulnerable to equal deception.  We would follow Satan to the very precipice of the Lake of Fire and over the brink if we could!  Yet grace will be finally victorious for every single one of Christ's chosen ones.  Not one of Christ's chosen can ever fall over the brink!

You Categorize Calvinists too Simply!

I say to myself...

SELF>> You categorize Calvinists too simply while comparing them with Arminians.  For example some Calvinists prefer the language of limited atonement while others prefer the language of particular atonement.

ME>> Self, that is a very good point that could use clarification.

You are right that not all Calvinists are in agreement about salvation or numerous other Christian doctrines.  Many Calvinists advocate infant baptism while others are only for believer's baptism, as an example.  In this book I have used the term Calvinist to refer to a Christian who thinks that Christ's atoning sacrifice is only purposed for a subset of mankind and effectively accomplishes salvation for that subset of mankind.  These Christians also believe that the remainder of mankind whose sin is not atoned for have no possibility of salvation.  Thus the atonement of Christ is limited in both its saving purpose and effect.  Let's refer to these guys as Limited Atonement Calvinists.

I have already explained in my article, A House Divided, that some other Calvinists have attempt to solve the salvation riddle by suggesting that Christ's atonement IS NOT LIMITED in its purpose and is offered "generally" to all.  They rightly refuse to swallow the understanding of Limited Atonement Calvinists because of verses like I John 2:1-2.  However, they still need to explain why they think some human beings go to eternal Hell.  So they say that the atonement is general in its purpose, but it IS LIMITED in its effect.  Strictly speaking these theologians are not Calvinists.  First, their division of the atonement into two dimensions is not supported Biblically.  Second, they miss the gospel emphasis that Christ's atonement is definite in its purpose and effect of paying only the sin debt of the people known as "His People."  The offense of the cross highlighted through the whole New Testament is that Christ came to save his particular people only.  So let's refer to these guys as the Divided Atonement Calvinists.  In fact these guys truly are divided for they are further divided into two main understandings.  One camp of the Divided Atonement Calvinists believes that Christ's atonement is made effective through an individual's free will choice of repentance and faith followed by the New Birth.  Let's call these guys the Dishonest Arminians.  The other camp of the Divided Atonement Calvinists believes that grace alone effects the New Birth and is followed by faith and repentance.  This second group is very difficult to pin down.  I know because I was among them!  However, if you pin one of them down you will either find a Waffling Limited Atonement Calvinist or a Dishonest Arminian.  Beware the wrestling match.

Okay, what about the Particular Atonement Calvinists?  Though most Baptists in the United States descend from the Particular Baptist movement, there are very few Particular Baptists that remain theologically orthodox.  Most of these groups have migrated back to the General Atonement view with the determining factor of an individual's salvation being the exercise of their free will choice of faith.  The gospel of grace is lost from their preaching.  They are plainly Arminian regardless of the label they give themselves.

So the Limited Atonement Calvinists unbiblically restrict the work of Christ.  The Divided Atonement Calvinists unbiblically divide the work of Christ.  And the General Atonement Arminians unbiblically add a human supplied condition into the salvation equation.  For myself, I have said I am not a Baptist, but a Christian, in keeping with Christ's prayer for unity.  Yet IF I were to assign a label to myself I would be a Particular Atonement Calvinist Baptist.  It seems to me that a person needs to become a Christian before they should be baptized.  It also seems to me that the atonement of Christ is neither limited nor divided.  However, his atonement is a definite payment for the sins of a particular people.   God loves all mankind in a special way.  Now I cannot speak for all theologians who would give themselves that label, but at least some have come to the same conclusion as I that Christ's particular people is in fact... all mankind.  Yet sadly most of mankind is not aware or refuses to believe that their sins are already paid.  They prefer the religion of self-righteousness and man's free will.  So there is much work to do and the Great Commission is to take this good news to the world!

You might say to me that "particular" atonement ultimately means "limited."  However, that is not true.  We are using the word "particular" to mean "special" and not "limited" or "general."  Jesus does not love his beloved in a simple, general way, but in a very special way.  Why do you insist that God's special particular love for his chosen ones requires that his love is then limited to a subset of mankind?  Do you have children?  Do you have a special, particular love for each of them?  John called himself "the disciple whom Jesus loved" because Jesus loved him.  But that does not mean that Jesus does not love you, me, or all mankind!  John's nickname for himself confronts each of us with questions.  On what basis can you know that Jesus loves you?  Are you confident because of your choice to "trust" in Christ or because of his choice to love you from the cross?  Are you also a disciple that Jesus loved?

Quit complaining about John's confidence in God's special love for him and begin to rejoice in God's special love for you and for all mankind!

You Have Compromised All...

Another responded...

READER>> Here are some of my thoughts in response.  On the surface, you have answered all the questions. It seems having harmonized God’s grace with man’s faith without compromising His justice. But I think you have compromised all of them. You said “the non-believers will be condemned to Hades as punishment for their unbelief, but will ultimately go to the new heaven due to God’s grace.”  First of all, it is undermining the character of God’s grace.

Grace, in my understanding, is unmerited. Consider the prodigal son in Luke 15. When he came back to his father, his father received him out of grace. What if his father let him work for ten years due to his prodigality, and then restored his sonship after his hard work? Is it grace? What would be in that son’s mind then? He had been working for ten years before the sonship was restored. Is there something he could boast? Say the unbelievers go to the new heaven eventually, will they have something to boast before God? “Oh yeah, I’ve only spent less than 100 years sinning on earth, but I have been suffering in Hades for (I don’t know, maybe) thousands of years, as punishment. I’ve got what I deserved. Now you pull me up from Hades and expect me to be thankful?” Certainly when grace is contaminated with “works,” even just a teeny tiny bit of it, it is not grace anymore. I don’t think God would do this to embarrass Himself, to damage His character, or to undermine His grace.

ME>>  This is an excellent question and a good point to clarify.  Punishment in Hades / Hell may not be remedial.  Each individual human being is born into sin according to Romans 5:12.  Everyone begins with a depraved human nature that ultimately hates God and grace in favor of self-righteousness.  Until the Holy Spirit specifically targets an individual for the new birth their heart remains constantly at enmity toward God.  Yet, 2 Peter 2:1, 1 John 2:2, and many other verses make it clear that even these unbelievers have been bought and their sins fully paid.  God loves them dearly.  However, they have not been touched by the Holy Spirit and so their hearts are unchanged and they continue to be wicked men.  Hell is a fit destiny for these unregenerate souls who hate God.  Furthermore, even the suffering of Hell may not bring about repentance and love toward God.  Hell is the home they chose and God gives it to them.  Hell may not draw their hearts one inch closer to God.  Given the choice between worship of Christ or going to Hell, they have chosen Hell.  So time in Hell is not a "work" that earns grace!  Instead, Hell is a home fit for the self-righteous who hate grace.  Though God loves all mankind very dearly, including the human beings in Hell, no one in Hell has a heart changed to love God in return... at least not yet.  So why does God awaken love in some people early in life before suffering great consequences from sin and others later in life after suffering great trials from sin?  The prodigal son may have rebelled for 1 year, 10 years or even 20 years.  We do not know the length of time he was separated from his father.  Yet our father's love remains constant regardless of the length of time we remain in unrepentance.  Furthermore, the time we spend in unrepentance (whether in this life or in Hell) is certainly not a "work" that earns grace.  Grace cannot be earned.  Jesus is Lord of salvation.  It is his choice as to who he forgives, a choice he already made when he paid the entire sin debt of mankind on the cross.  It is also his choice as to when he transforms the heart to receive his love and forgiveness.  Why would God let many pass this life into Hell only to change their hearts with grace after death?  Simply, God is demonstrating the great patience of his grace according to his wisdom in the lives of depraved humanity.  King David had confidence that, if he wound up in Sheol, even there God's love would guide him, Psalm 139.  Of course David was a believer so he did not go to Hell.  No one transformed by grace will ever say "I’ve got what I deserved.  Now you pull me up from Hades and expect me to be thankful?" as you suggest.  In fact read about the Great White Throne Judgment yourself in Matthew 25:31-46 and see that instead Jesus graciously credits righteousness to the sheep standing before him, just extracted from Hades.  The sheep are both incredulous and grateful.  That is the heart of a sheep.

READER>>  Revelation 20:12-15 (NASB) “And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”  
 
From my study and understanding, the ungodly have been kept in a place of torment and punishment in their spirits, but not joined with a final supernatural body fitted for their punishment in the eternal hell--the lake of fire. It's like a prisoner who hasn't had his trial yet, he's still incarcerated in a jail until his trial at which time he is sent to the penitentiary to serve out his life sentence. The unbelievers are incarcerated now in a place of torment away from God. They will be brought before the tribunal of God, they will be given a new, resurrected body fit for their eternal incarceration in the final hell called the lake of fire. I don’t get any indication that God raises them up in order to bring them into the new heaven. This is what Jesus called "the resurrection of damnation," or “the resurrection of judgment” in John 5:29. Or “the resurrection of the wicked” in Acts 24:15.

ME>> Yes, exactly.  John 5:29 and Acts 24:15 are also speaking about the Great White Throne Judgment.  But where is your Scriptural support to prove that even one unbelieving human extracted from Hades will then be cast into the Lake of Fire?  Matthew 25:41 says that the eternal fire is "prepared for the Devil and his angels."  Revelation 20:15 says that the final determination is not conditioned on man's faith, but on the ledger of the Book of Life.  You seem confident that your name is there, but on what basis?  I am also confident that your name is there, but only on the basis of grace.  Do you think "faith" is the condition that added your name to the book?  Then that would be a human work / condition and not grace.  Do you think Christ paid effectively for your sins and not effectively for the sins of all mankind?  Holding to either of those views puts you in jeopardy of the destiny of those in 2 Peter 2:1 who deny Jesus as Lord of our salvation.  You are right that the unredeemed will be united with a body to suffer eternally in the Lake of Fire.  However, Isaiah 66:22-24 makes it clear twice that all mankind will worship God and all mankind will look with loathe upon the bodies of the wicked.  Who are the wicked unredeemed?  If all mankind is looking upon them, then it cannot be mankind!  Instead, Satan and his demons are the unredeemed cast into the Lake of Fire united with loathsome bodies.  All Mankind has been redeemed through the death of Christ, but not Satan and his angels.

READER>> God is the God of grace, love and mercy. He is also the God of wrath and justice. He has to be consistent with His judgment. God’s justice does not mean He will just send those who rejected His Son into Hades for “temporary” (compared with eternal) punishments.  

ME>> Yes, exactly.  I whole heartedly agree that God's character is balanced perfectly with love, justice, and grace.  These excellent attributes cannot and will not be compromised in any way.  In fact that is my main point!  The wrath of God has been fully satisfied for the sins of both believing and unbelieving mankind.  The justice of God has already been met for all mankind and thus all mankind must be saved -- not because of any condition we could meet, but because of the condition Christ already met.  Since justice has been served for all mankind, all mankind must be saved!  1 John 2:2 could not be more clear that atonement has been made independently of any condition that man could ever meet for both the believing and the unbelieving.  Romans 5:10 also makes it clear that we were reconciled to God while we were yet enemies.  The reconciliation of men to God was accomplished by the grace of Christ alone.  Many Christians talk about the "finished" work of Christ.  I believe his work is truly finished for all mankind and evangelism is simply inviting people to believe it.  Yet, 2 Peter 2:1 does make it clear that those who reject their sovereign Lord will suffer for the duration in Hell / Hades even though their sins are paid for.

READER>> I think this might be the key question: You have asked, “What is the extent of God’s grace? Or what is the extent of the atonement?” Based on my limited understanding, the extent of God’s grace is unlimited. He COULD surely save everyone if He wills. But the effect of the atonement is limited. It only goes to the elect. God offers salvation to whomever he wants to please Himself for His own glory. “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” He is not doing this to please us. Neither do we have the right to question Him. And it is not done according to anyone’s understanding. It is not our job to figure it out, nor do I think we can understand God’s infinite mind with our tiny brains. What I have done, and what I will be praying for you also, is to be comfortable with our inability not to get it, to stop fighting it, and to be content not to get it. We are just the clay in His hands after all. He has the right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use.

ME>> You suggest that God's grace is unlimited in potential, but limited in effect.  Perhaps you have been talking to some Regular Baptists.  I assert that if you believe that Christ's atonement has both potential and effective components then you have also received a salvation that waffles between potential and effective.  There is nothing potential about the grace of God in any way whatsoever.  God's love and grace is determined and set upon his chosen people and he will not be thwarted.  I have to completely refuse your offer to allow question marks and doubt into the salvation equation.  Why would I ever do that?  Instead I invite you to believe that your sins and the sins of all mankind are fully paid.  Why not put both your feet solidly down on the rock of Christ?  You point out that God says, “...he has mercy on whom he desires, and he hardens whom he desires," Romans 9:18 (WEB).  That statement is true.  Most of mankind is not chosen to believe that their sins are already fully paid for.  Their existence is to be pitied while they attempt to hide their sin with religion.  One could argue with perfect reason from the Scripture that the sins of mankind are fully paid and rather than joyfully rest in the fact they will never let go of their self-righteousness salvation.  They will never let go unless the Holy Spirit gives them a heart of flesh.  They are dead men clinging to life preservers made of lead.  Their hearts remain unrepentant and self-righteous.  God has forgiven them from the cross, but not yet given them the mercy of repentance, Romans 2:4.
 
READER>> You have said, “If the atonement is limited, then you CANNOT know that the atonement applies to you.” I receive it by faith. And you asked, “How can you prove it?” Salvation can be verified by works, as James taught in his epistle. Thus it proves the atonement applies to me. If you are not satisfied with this answer, then I think I CANNOT prove it. I’ll just trust the Lord.  It’ll get me nowhere if I try to prove it. You asked, “Are the sins of a Christian forgiven before or after his/her repentance? If it happens after conversion, then faith itself is work.” My answer would be: No! Faith is not work. You stated, “If it happens before repentance, then it applies to everyone.” I cannot agree. I don’t see any indication that they are related that way. I think “the price has been paid” is not equal to “everyone has received forgiveness.” The former is God’s grace; the latter is man’s responsibility. This goes back to your question “Since the price has been paid, do I receive my forgiveness before or after my repentance?” I don’t know. I don’t think one can define WHEN it happened. It is God’s miracle.

ME>> Works are evidence of the transformed life and Christian faith, that is true.  However, works can never prove that Christ atoned for you and not another.  The great transaction at the cross of Christ is independent of all conditions anyone could offer and is proved to vicariously apply to all mankind because Christ became a man and thus is the new Federal head of all mankind, Romans 5:12-21.  So yes, works are evidence of having received God's love, but they are not evidence that God loves you in the first place.  Think carefully about that.  God loved us while we were still his enemies.  Biblical faith is the result of being born again, but "faith" that claims to be the condition that secures God's love is anti-grace and a work.  You are right that “the price has been paid” is not equal to “everyone has received forgiveness.”   The price has been paid, but not everyone has received forgiveness.  All Christ's chosen are forgiven, but most continue to stubbornly refuse forgiveness in favor of self-righteousness.  They hold to Peter's rebellious words, "you shall never wash me."  And if these rebellious continue in unbelief they will be sentenced to Hades.  You say I asked “Since the price has been paid, do I receive my forgiveness before or after my repentance?”  To clarify, my question to the religious is "are we forgiven before or after we ask for forgiveness?"  The answer is most certainly before.  Jesus prayed for our forgiveness from the cross and there was not one person asking.

You quote me saying “If it happens before repentance, then it applies to everyone.”  I have shown you the verses that say Christ died for all.  I have also shown you that the very nature of how Christ paid for sin, that is becoming a man, demands that his death apply to all mankind.  He was not a divided man on the cross paying for a division of mankind's sin.  He was a whole man divided for all our sin.  Are you concerned that I believe if Christ paid for one, then he must have paid for all?  Consider Romans 11:16 (WEB), "If the first fruit is holy, so is the lump. If the root is holy, so are the branches."  The Scriptures confirm that if the part is holy, then the whole is holy as well.
 
READER>> You asked, “Is your faith a pen or glasses?” Obviously it is not a pen, I didn’t write my name in the book of life with my faith. It’s not glasses either. I still cannot read the book, or even see the book. And you asked, “How and when were those names written into the book of life?” Based on Paul’s teaching, they were written down there by God before the foundation of the world. “Why some are there and some are not?” I don’t know. Let God decide. The same as the potter and clay relationship. “How do you know that your name is in the book?” If you are asking how I can physically see my name in the book. Well, I can’t. But I know I have eternal life, so it’s gotta be there. 1 John 5:13 “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life.”  

ME>> I am glad you have confidence that you have eternal life.  My goal in teaching about the gospel of Jesus Christ and his grace is nothing less than to help others have rock solid confidence in God's love for them and all God's people.  However, your objections to my primary thesis expose that you do not have both feet squarely on the rock of Christ.

READER>> It seems to me that you are undermining the role of faith in salvation. The Scriptures clearly teach on God’s Sovereignty (Election) and Man’s Responsibility (Faith).  Let me borrow John MacArthur’s term and call it the “Twin Truths” here. And the Scriptures go back and forth from divine sovereignty to human responsibility. They always run parallel, and they will never intersect.
 
The grace of God is sufficient for all men. But only those He chose receive salvation. In other words, the extent of the atonement is universal. It is available to all. But the effect of the atonement only goes to the elect, based on His purpose according to His choice. He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.  
 
On one hand, God has His “irresistible grace,” on the other hand He holds every one responsible for his/her own belief or unbelief. What is the role of faith then? How do we harmonize it with God’s “irresistible grace?” The answer I found is there is no way to harmonize these two things without destroying one or the other, or even both. I just need to believe in both.
 
The fact that we don’t understand how it works only proves that we’re less than what we think we should be. It doesn’t say anything about God. Our inability to harmonize those things is a reflection of your fallenness, and my fallenness. They can’t be harmonized in our puny human mind, compared to the infinite, vast, limitless mind of God.
 
1 Corinthians 13:9 “For we know in part and we prophesy in part.” We are limited to what God has revealed, and we are limited by the fact that a human mind cannot understand a superhuman God in fullness. Systemizing God is very difficult because we don’t have all of the information, we are trying to put the pieces together and make conclusions without fullness of revelation. Romans 11:33-34 ”Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor?” His ways are past finding out. We are always dealing with a part of the truth in terms of its total.

ME>> We agree on much.  Faith is essential for salvation from a self-righteous heart, for salvation from sin, for salvation from Hell.  Faith is essential to be a Christian.  Faith is essential to be graced with the title "God's Child."  Faith is essential to be reconciled to God... that is for our hearts to cease being at enmity toward God.  The point that we disagree upon may be small, but it is critical.  Faith does absolutely nothing to reconcile us to God... for his part.  Faith does not get Jesus to die on the cross for us or get Jesus to decide to love sinners.  He did that without our asking.  He did that in spite of Peter's objections!  God loved us first!  That is the heart of grace.  God's heart never had or will have condemnation toward us.  And if he never condemns us then there is no judge with authority to damn us to the Lake of Fire.  God loved us while we were yet sinners.  That is the good news.  We do not have to do anything to get God to love us.  And if he loves us at all, he loves us completely.

In the end I think we have different definitions of saving faith.  Unfortunately we cannot share the same joy until you let go of "faith" as a condition to God's love and instead begin to trust in Christ's unconditional love.  You point out that we "know in part."  That is true.  However, the gospel of Jesus Christ does not reveal "part" of God's love for mankind, but the gospel reveals the full extent of God's love.  The gospel does not conceal, but reveals.  The willing sacrifice of God's only son proves that God loves us to the maximum!  The love of God for all mankind is fully manifest in Christ's willingness to die for all mankind, while we were yet sinners.  I hope that I can continue to be patient with your resistance to this good news.
 
READER>> But what I do know is: if one doesn’t BELIEVE, he/she is NOT BORN AGAIN, thus he/she is NOT a CHILD OF GOD, and could NOT inherit the kingdom of God. One cannot go to heaven if he/she cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

ME>> I agree.  Those who reject grace and remain unbelieving will not be in paradise when they die, but will be punished in Hades.  Their hearts remain unchanged by grace and so Hades will be a fit destiny for their souls.  They are not sons of God while in unrepentant unbelief.  Yet, because the death of Christ has satisfied justice for their sin, the grace of God must and will prove victorious in the end, even for them.  These wicked unbelieving humans will be extracted from Hades and transformed by grace to receive grace with gratitude, Matthew 25:31-46.  They will be sons of God.  I take sides with King David who believed that the love of God continues even for those in Hades, Psalm 139.  I also take sides with Jesus who said that even "...the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18b WEB).
 
READER>> 1 John 2:2 says “and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.” I think it can be explained in this way. The extent of the atonement is SUFFICIENT for each individual. But the effect ONLY goes to the elect. Besides, ”the whole world” in 1 John 2:2 would fit the rest of the Scriptures better if it is taken as “every nation, every race,” instead of “every individual in this world.”

2 Peter 2:1 “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.” In what sense are the false teachers bought? The same as in 1 John 2:2. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross was a SUFFICIENT purchase price to redeem all men. The price has been paid for all in terms of availability. In that sense they have been bought. Still, only the elect will be saved. 

ME>> When you do evangelism do you tell people that Christ might love them or might have died for them?   To say that the atonement is only sufficient implies that it only potentially satisfies the wrath of God against the sinner.  If the atonement is only potential then what ingredient is needed to activate the atonement and make it effective?  If the sacrifice of Jesus was only sufficient or potentially sufficient to pay for the sins of the false teachers, then on what basis can we say it effectively paid for our sins?  The Scriptures say that we were bought and that they were bought.  If one is only potential and the other effective, then on what basis can anyone claim with certainty that their sins were effectively paid?  On the basis of their "faith?"  Then the object of their "faith" is their "faith" and it falls on itself!  Their "faith" is no longer on Christ, but "faith in faith."  You must agree that a person could be deceived and not have true faith.  If that is true then how can you tell if your faith is real and has reached the effective part of Jesus' atonement?  This is all silly.  Jesus has atoned for the sins of all mankind, period.  That is where my faith rests and I invite you and everyone to confess the same.

READER>> 1 John 2:27 “As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.” I think John was rebuking “those who are trying to deceive you” in verse 26, and their human wisdom. He was not talking about pastors, teachers, or shepherds of the flocks. It doesn’t make any sense to me that John, as a teacher himself, was writing to the Christians in Asia Minor to tell them they didn’t need anyone, including himself, to teach them. I hope Satan did not use this verse to deceive you.

ME>> John is warning the believers about those who are trying to deceive.  Deceivers could come from anywhere.  How can you say that he is not talking about a pastor or teacher?  Certainly not all pastors or teachers are deceivers, but just as certainly some are both deceived and deceiving.  You quoted 2 Peter 2:1 above which says exactly that!  The point of this verse is that a believer should never turn off the "mind of Christ" he has been given and allow another person to serve as the authoritative interpreter of Scripture.  You should not believe what I or anyone says because you trust another person's interpretation.  Instead you should read the Bible, listen to the thoughts of others if the Lord leads, but most importantly pray and ask God to show you the truth.  Only the Holy Spirit is the authoritative interpreter of Scripture.  You may disagree with me and me with you.  Thankfully the grace of God has that covered.  However, there is no human being that can ever stand as the referee to judge the match.  Who would we choose?  Again, the Holy Spirit is our teacher.
 
READER>> In addition, I think the argument that one need a statement in one verse to prove a point is weak, because there are many truths in the Bible that are indicated to us by the totality of Scripture rather than any one given statement.

ME>> That is a good point.  Did I only cite one verse in my book?  Here is another one that is an encouragement to believers... 1 Timothy 4:10 (WEB), "For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we have set our trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe."  It is odd that the Holy Spirit would say "especially."  He says it this way because all mankind is loved by God and already reconciled to him and guaranteed a seat in the New Heaven and Earth.  Believers are especially saved because they have received God's love and love him in return now.  However, unbelievers, though already forgiven at the cross, have not yet received forgiveness and do not yet love God.  Also believers have transformed hearts and are saved from punishment in Hades, whereas unbelievers will be punished in Hades.
 
READER>>  Salvation is by grace ALONE, through faith ALONE, in Christ ALONE, and to the glory of God ALONE. God chose to save some for His own glory. Often we think God as what we think He should be instead of  “I am who I am.” And we think God works in a way that we could comprehend. Instead, we should trust Him in everything, “and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

ME>> You echo the rally cry of the reformation to me.  Those are powerful words, yet they are claimed by both Arminian and Calvinistic Christians.  As for Luther and his great statements about salvation by faith alone, did he teach us whether faith is receiving God's love already guaranteed or the condition that activates God's love?  I don't know what he thought, but you and I have come to different conclusions about what saving faith is, about what Hell is and who goes there, and about the Lake of Fire and who is saved from it.  You say that I have compromised all, but in fact it is you who has compromised the meaning of the word "all."  You add condition to the unconditional love of God and so compromise salvation that is ALL of grace.  You also limit the extent and effectiveness of Christ's atonement which paid for ALL.  If the Lord changes your mind you will be a most dear brother to me.  By the way, you might be tempted to simply choose conventional understandings that surround you instead of my unconventional view.  However, history reminds us that truth is not determined by conventions or even the majority.  Perhaps if my idea was totally alone in history or even alone today I would abandon it myself.  Yet a Google search of "Victorious Gospel" and "Greater Grace" will show you that many are rejoicing in this understanding.

Your Beliefs Destroy Christian Friendships!

One friend said...

READER>> Your beliefs destroy Christian friendships!

ME>> This is the most important objection of every objection raised to against my happy thesis that Jesus Christ is your savior, my savior, and the savior of all mankind.  Certainly of all possible concerns, people and relationship are the most important concern.  Yet the objection is raised that my beliefs have strained and even broken relationships with dear friends and churches.  So how can that be good?  Is my proposed thesis harmful?  Shall we just conclude that this is an inevitable part of life under the sun?  Shall we even conclude it is an unexplained part of Jesus' call to discipleship?  After all Jesus did say...

34) Don't think that I came to send peace on the earth. I didn't come to send peace, but a sword. 35) For I came to set a man at odds against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36) A man's foes will be those of his own household. 37) He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me isn't worthy of me. 38) He who doesn't take his cross and follow after me, isn't worthy of me.

Matthew 10:34-38 (WEB)


Is my thesis and even Jesus himself the promoter of disregard for the importance of people and relationships?  Why would Jesus say these things?  Is Jesus simply a trouble maker or divisive person?  With a very superficial glance some might think so.  However, consider that Paul said,

Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

2 Timothy 3:12 (WEB)


So we are reminded that not all is equal in this world.  There are right and wrong ideas, and right and wrong ways to live that are in conflict with one another.  The decision to believe right ideas and live right ways will offend those who chose wrong ideas and wrong ways to live.  But you may counter that you do not know or nobody can know what is right or wrong in these matters.  Certainly there are some things that we cannot know, while there are others things that we can be very confident about through God's word.

So the facts remain that the Bible claims to speak the truth about God, man, and salvation.  The fact also remains that ideas are very important because they affect our relationships with people and our understanding of the value of people.  And the fact remains that people often disagree, even to the point of breaking fellowship.

So is there a reason that justifies introducing ideas that could cause conflict between people?  Is it right to jeopardize fellowship with a disagreement over truth?  Wouldn't it be better to navigate the waters of conflict with compromise and negotiation in order to be at peace with all people?

Regarding painful circumstance Jesus records,

1) Therefore let's also, seeing we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let's run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2) looking to Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising its shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3) For consider him who has endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, that you don't grow weary, fainting in your souls.

Hebrews 12:1-3 (WEB)


Jesus did not enjoy pain for the sake of pain or conflict for the sake of conflict.  He "endured the cross," but he did not like it!  Instead he chose to endure the cross because of a greater goal beyond the cross, the joy set before him.  And what was the joy set before him?  The great victory he would win through paying the price for all mankind's sin, the awesome prize of the salvation of all mankind.  Christ gently and resolutely held to the truth, at times offending every spectrum, from pagan to Pharisee, even to the loss of his life, because he chose to love us all.  So is there a reason to endure conflict, jeopardize relationships, and even destroy friendships?

Yes, most certainly!

When Satan's lies or our hypocrisy obscures or ruins the much greater goal of God's love expressed for all mankind, then there is a reason to rock the boat.  When relationships exclude God and the truth, they cannot endure for very long, and then there is a reason to tear down and rebuild on a solid foundation.  When relationships are not built on the foundation of God's love for all mankind, then you will find you are "friends" with a nest of blind hypocrites... that will be disbanded.

So yes, Jesus said his ministry would bring a sword of division, but he also promises,

39) He who seeks his life will lose it; and he who loses his life for my sake will find it. 40) He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me. 41) He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet will receive a prophet's reward. He who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward. 42) Whoever gives one of these little ones just a cup of cold water to drink in the name of a disciple, most certainly I tell you he will in no way lose his reward.

Matthew 10:39-42 (WEB)


Broken relationships are not Christ's goal, but exactly the opposite!  He is working with self-centered hypocritical unbelieving sinners to build a self-less happy loving family with himself and mankind as the main ingredients.  It is too big a challenge for us, but not for him.  Meanwhile, he knows that things will get messy.  So he invites us to join him in showing love to others even in small ways, like simply giving a cup of cold water to another, in His name.  The cup of cold water I have for you and for any that will listen is simply this...

Jesus Christ is your savior, my savior, and the savior of all mankind.

I think you can see for yourself that this is a faithful message, the good news of the Bible.  So the only relationships threatened by this truth are with those who disagree saying that God does not love all mankind.  If friendships are destroyed over that good news, then of course that is sad.  Thankfully, however, because of grace, God's patience, and repentance, it will not be sad forever.  Forever friendship and fellowship is coming for ALL God's people, with God our Heavenly Father at the head of the table!

Find courage my friend to hold up the light!

Your Reasoning is Backwards!

AGAIN>> You are not thinking right.  Your reasoning is backwards!

ME>>  Actually, both the Arminian and the Calvinist are guilty of reasoning from their end backward to their conclusions about salvation.  They both begin by saying that it is clear that unbelieving humans are sentenced to eternal damnation.  They rightly see that many passages do speak about punishment for men after death as I also agree.  Yet because of misguidance, ignorance, fear, or worse, they are quick to conclude that the punishment after death is eternal.  (It is certainly a challenge because the English New Testament has mistranslated the word "aion." Yet not even this mistranslation should stop a believer in his pursuit of the truth!)  They then reason backwards into their respective corners.

The Calvinist foolishly claims that Christ did not die for all mankind, reasoning that otherwise people would not be in eternal Hell.  The Arminian similarly boasts that his free will made the difference in his salvation, reasoning that this must be the condition to God's unconditional love.  I fully understand this way of thinking because sadly I thought it myself!  Even more curious is that these two guys get along with each other well enough from their different corners and with their different salvation recipes, as long as someone else is going to eternal damnation other than them.  This backwards reasoning is foolish and has left us in morally bankrupt corners filled with fear and hypocrisy, devoid of grace.  Lord willing, this fight will be brought to the center of the ring so that the truth of God's unconditional love for all will be defended.

If we would be willing to reason forward from the cross with the knowledge we have of Jesus, then we would see with open eyes and be willing to break with graceless tradition.  Reasoning forward from the cross, we know that our sins were paid while we were yet enemies of God.  Free will, even if there is such a thing, has nothing to do whatsoever with our forgiveness!  How could it if we were loved and forgiven while we were yet enemies?  Why is free will praised when it is dead in the casket and six feet under?  The religion of free will persists because of fear and self-righteousness.

However, reasoning forward from the cross, if we claim to believe that our sins are forgiven, then we already know that the sins of all mankind are forgiven by the same blood of Jesus!  Reasoning forward from the cross, we know that Jesus became a man, and died in the flesh for the sins of all mankind.  He did not become part of a man or even half of a man to die for part of mankind.  He became a whole and perfect man to atone for the sins of all mankind.

Why is the supposed "limited atonement" still ruling men with fear when it plainly contradicts Scripture?  The religion of "limited atonement" persists because of fear and hypocrisy.  However, reasoning forward from the cross we have great reason to question the translation of "eternal" and learn from solid study that "aion" means "eon" or "age" or even "entirety" or "whole life."  So it is true that we are warned that those who reject grace are not saved from spending a term in Hades, unless they repent.  Yet the grace of God will be victorious even for those punished in Hades.  Want more Biblical proof?

Read 1 Corinthians 15:55 (properly translated by WEB), "Death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?"  The victorious grace of Jesus Christ has defeated both death and Hades!  Let's reason forward from the good news to the glorious future that awaits the redeemed people of God!

'Come now, and let’s reason together,' says Yahweh:
'Though your sins be as scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow.
Though they be red like crimson,
they shall be as wool.'

Isaiah 1:18 (WEB)

Your Thoughts on Matthews Meaning of 'Aionian Fire?'

QUESTION>> [How do you explain] the connection between the eonian fire prepared for the devil and his angels and the eonian fire of Gehenna (the same Aramaic phraseology is used in Matthew's gospel about them both, "the fire the eonian?"  This essentially identifies the two.

ME>> You note that Matthew uses the exact same phrase, "the fire the aionian" in Matthew 18:8 and also 25:41 which appears to identify these as the same destiny.  Yet Matthew 18:8 is clearly a warning to human unbelievers; and I have proposed that Matthew 25:41 is speaking of a different destiny reserved only for the Devil and his angels.  Actually it is traditional theology that attempts to read any expression containing "fire" and "aionian" as coined only to mean "eternal Hell."  However, the word "fire" is used 73 times in the New Testament with meanings including judgment, purification, literal fire, and symbolic fire.  Download a study guide at DGJC.ORG/OPTIMISM/PYR.  Christian Universalists, have also observed that the word "aionian" has a rich meaning including "age" and also "complete" or "entire."  This adjective should not be understood to coin a particular eternal destiny.  For example, Thomas Talbott translates "aionian" in II Thessalonians 1:9 as "complete destruction" at the Lord's return which is the most faithful to the context.  Thus we should learn from ourselves that just because the exact same phrase, "the fire the aionian," is found in both Matthew 18:8 and 25:41, this does not mean that this phrase is in fact a capitalized proper noun.  Other Scripture teaches us that both Hades and the Lake of Fire include "fire" judgments, yet we know these are different places.  So the addition of the qualifier "aionian" does not then require that Matthew 18:8 and 25:41 are the same place. In fact in Matthew 25:41, the additional expression, "prepared for the Devil and his angels," is best understood to qualify that "the fire the aionian" in Matthew 25:41 is in fact a different location than Matthew 18:8.  See my previous article, II Thessalonians 1:6-10.

QUESTION>> You allow that the Gehenna warning isn't a bluff to frighten people whom God does not even remotely intend even temporarily putting into the eonian fire of Gehenna; but you still regard the eonian fire of Gehenna as the fire in hades (for good reasons I agree) and the eonian fire for the devil and his angels as being a different punishment than the lake of fire.

ME>> Yes, that is my conclusion. I understand that Jesus does not merely threaten, but warns that if his unbelieving audience does not repent that they will suffer the complete destruction of their earthly ambitions, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, as well as suffer the fires of Hades, Luke 16:23.  Hades is the "aionian fires" that are the netherworld judgment of wicked mankind. The word "Gehenna" is used twelve times in the New Testament and in each case mankind's judgment is in view.  So the "Gehenna" reference is either the destruction from sin's consequences in this life or the subsequent judgment in Hades. The Lake of Fire, however, is the "aionian fires" that are prepared for the Devil and his angels.

QUESTION>> The defense that Christ switches from addressing the devil and his angels to explaining to the redeemed unbelievers (who had unknowingly been faithful) that this fire is "prepared for the devil and his angels," seems forced to me (though you acknowledge the awkwardness).

ME>> The awkwardness is no greater than the traditional understanding that the Sheep on Jesus' right are Christians.  How could it even be possible that we Christians who already understand our salvation would corporately stand before his throne with these doubts?  Consider that if the Sheep and Goat Judgment is synonymous with the final Great White Throne Judgment, then we Christians have already been Raptured to meet Christ in the air, have been re-united with all the deceased saints, and have been given our glorified bodies, all before the Sheep and Goat judgment.  Do we think that after these tangible beginnings of eternity that we will then stand before Christ's throne with revived doubts?  Hardly.  So if the Sheep on the right are not us, then who are they?  Revelation 20:5 makes it clear that unbelievers are raised when the thousand years are ended.  Revelation 20:13 makes it clear that Hades is emptied of its inhabitants, unbelieving mankind, after the thousand years to stand before Christ's throne.  Jesus already made it clear that the gates of Hades would not prevail against his work in Matthew 16:18.  Paul also made it clear that Hades will not have the victory in 1 Corinthians 15:55.  The Sheep on the right are the rebellious unbelieving elect, safely extracted from Hades and finally given grace to receive their salvation.

Then who are the Goats on Jesus' left?  Traditional theology and even many forms of Christian Universalism understand these people to be unbelieving humanity.  However, again II Peter 2:4 and Jude 6 teach us that certain fallen angels are currently being held for judgment on that Great Day.  The Sheep and Goat Judgment and the Great White Throne Judgment are the excellent candidate for the Great Day of judgment for these fallen angels.  In fact, even the language of Sheep and Goats fits quite naturally with a group of Christ's subjects containing both man and demon.  See this article for even further proof, Fallen Angels at The Great White Throne Judgment?

You do make a good point that my earlier proposal is awkward, that the phrase "prepared for the Devil and his angels" was not addressed to the demons, but was commentary to the Sheep.  So instead, perhaps it is not awkward at all to hear Jesus saying the entire phrase to the demons themselves.  Satan is already cast into the Lake of Fire at this point and so Jesus points to the Goats on his left, the Devil's angels, the demons, and says, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels," (Matthew 25:41b WEB).  My original article on this question is titled, You Are Wrong About Matthew 25:31-46!

QUESTION>> [Also your understanding of the Sheep and Goat Judgment solves one problem, but introduces another.  You continue to break the parallelism, but differently.  With your understanding] now the parable is contrasting the surprise that those who don't even know they are serving Christ shall be accepted, [contrasted] with what everyone everywhere already believed -- that the devil and his angels will be going into the eonian fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.  Even those surprised to have been serving Christ don't need that explained to them; certainly the apostles don't, who had been warned just previously once again as often throughout Christ's ministry, including back in that other saying about "the fire the eonian" that those chosen to be chief servants of Christ might still be dreadfully punished for their rebellious abuses.  What Christ thinks they need is, by all prior evidence, emphasized warnings that they had better not regard themselves as inherently safe from punishment!

ME>> We are both agreed that Christ has been warning his audience repeatedly that grave punishment awaits those who do not repent.  Some of the challenge in comparing our interpretations is that you hold to a pre-Millennial return of Christ, while I hold that the thousand year epoch is the present church age.  Also you hold that mankind is punished or purified in the Lake of Fire with the final salvation of mankind beyond that, while I hold that all mankind's salvation is realized at the Great White Throne Judgment with the Lake of Fire reserved for the Devil and angels alone.  I discuss these differences further in my article, Is Revelation 21-22 About The Church, The Last Age, or Eternity?  Unfortunately these differences may cause us to mix apples and oranges at times in our conversation.  My understanding is that Christ warns unbelieving mankind of punishment in Hades, but the believing also trust that mankind is exempt from the Lake of Fire which is prepared for the Devil and his angels.  You are right that the Apostles did not need these things explained to them for I am confident that they recognized the salvation of all mankind.  They also recognized that Satan is the archenemy of God and mankind, Ephesians 6:10-20.  However, I do not think you are right to assume that the unbelieving acknowledge the existence of Satan.  Furthermore, non-Christians certainly do not believe that our election to grace has saved all mankind, even though we have all sinned.  Nor do unbelievers know that Satan, the Father of Lies, and his demons are damned to the Lake of Fire.  The contrast between the destiny of the Sheep and the destiny of the Goats in Matthew 25:31-46 is an excellent education in grace for all of us.

QUESTION>> Your appeal to the lack of definite articles in Revelation 14 when speaking of human followers of the Beast, compared to later statements about the Devil and his angels being punished into the eons of the eons, is not going to carry much weight with anyone who understands that the omission of direct articles does not necessarily involve such a distinction.  There is certainly nothing conceptually obvious about a difference between "into eons of eons" and "into the eons of the eons".

ME>> I beg to differ.  The first obvious conceptual difference is that Hades and the Lake of Fire are different locations employed in different ages for different purposes.  Revelation 20:14 (WEB) makes this clear because after Hades is emptied it is then thrown into the Lake of Fire empty of all inhabitants, "Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.  This is the second death, the lake of fire."  Again, Hades and the Lake of Fire are different places with different purposes.  We have already shown that Jesus warns unbelieving mankind that they will be punished in "the fire the aionian" in Matthew 18:8, which I understand to be Hades.  However, Jesus also teaches us that there is also a related but different place, "the fire the aionian" that is qualified as being "prepared for the Devil and his angels" which I propose is the Lake of Fire.  So since there are two distinct places of punishment, it is quite reasonable to expect that there would also be a distinction in the reference to the time spent there.  Apparently Hades has served as the place to punish unbelieving mankind since the beginning of Creation and will continue to serve in that capacity until it is no longer needed after the Great White Throne Judgment.  So Revelation 14:11 speaks appropriately about the "ages and ages" of punishment suffered by mankind for their unbelief in Hades.  However, Revelation 20:10, highlights a particular time frame, "The Ages of The Ages" of the Lake of Fire.  This age is distinct as the last Biblical age and is emphasized by the Holy Spirit with the definite article, "The."  A. E. Knoch also highlights this observation, though I part ways with a number of his conclusions.  Perhaps my A-Millennial church age understanding of the thousand year epoch helps me to fit the puzzle pieces in a way that highlights the observation of the definite article in Revelation 20:10.  My proposed model of understanding sees Revelation 14:11 as speaking to the first century audience warning them that those who follow Satan or worship Rome or continue to follow the Old Covenant will be punished in Hades.  Of course unbelievers committing similar sins since then are in similar grave danger!  Revelation 20:10 then speaks to Christians through the whole church age warning us that Satan's work is not finished, but that one day, praise God, he will be finally damned to the Lake of Fire for the last age, "The Ages of The Ages." Also at that time unbelieving mankind is released from Hades to finally receive grace and salvation.  My original article on this point is, Forever Is Not Forever? You Still Gotta Be Kidding Me!

These observations have been building a grander storyline in my understanding.  The story began so many thousands of years ago with our parents, Adam and Eve, in the Garden of Eden.  Satan invaded our innocent landscape, leading us away from our Heavenly Father.  God punished Adam, Eve, and all their children since then, for we have all eaten the forbidden fruit.  However, God also promised that deliverance would come from the seed of the woman, her child Jesus, and that one day the serpent's head would be crushed.  Jesus crushed Satan's work at the cross and is now finishing the job, making his enemies into a footstool.  The final Revelation of Jesus Christ at the end of the New Testament is given to prophecy the fulfillment of the promise given so long ago in the Garden. We look forward to the final deliverance of mankind from sin and punishment with every tear wiped away in the City of God and with the dragon, Satan, and his demons damned to the Lake of Fire.

Come Lord Jesus!

Your Thought is that Daniel 12:1-4 is the Final Judgment?

QUESTION>>  Your thought is that Daniel 12:1-4 is the final judgment?

ME>> Yes, I have proposed that Matthew 25:31-46, Daniel 12:1-4, and Revelation 20:11-15 are all the same event, the final Great White Throne judgment.  I have already made a case for this in my articles Daniel 12:1-4 and Yes, but Even Harder Questions!

Yet Bill Saxton's book Daniel's Prophecies of Covenant Change makes a strong case that the King of North in Daniel 11 is Herod the Great which places elements of Daniel 12 into the first century rather than into the future as I have proposed.  Also the prophesied history of the Kings of the North and the South in Daniel 11 do not seem expansive enough to cover the entire history from Daniel's day to our future.  My initial review of Saxton's thoughts can be found in my article, Daniel 12:1-4, Further Reflection.

Bible commentators and even Bible translators are divided on their understanding of many of Daniel's prophecies, especially Daniel 12.  Saxton leans far toward a Preterist interpretation of Daniel arguing that most if not all of Daniel's prophecies address the First Advent of Christ and the change from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.  However, Saxton does stop short of Full Preterism holding that the Bible does prophecy the final return of Christ yet in our future.

The challenge in understanding Daniel 12 is assigning the timing to these events.  As mentioned, Saxton makes a good case that Daniel's earlier prophecies primarily address events leading up to the time of Christ and the change from the Old to the New Covenant.  Daniel 12:1 then begins, "At that time" making a strong chronological connection between Daniel 11, speaking about Herod the Great, and Daniel 12.

1) "At that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there will be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. At that time your people will be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. 2) Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3) Those who are wise will shine as the brightness of the expanse. Those who turn many to righteousness will shine as the stars forever and ever. 4) But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end. Many will run back and forth, and knowledge will be increased." 5) Then I, Daniel, looked, and behold, two others stood, one on the river bank on this side, and the other on the river bank on that side. 6) One said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be to the end of these wonders?" 7) I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by him who lives forever that it will be for a time, times, and a half; and when they have finished breaking in pieces the power of the holy people, all these things will be finished. 8) I heard, but I didn’t understand. Then I said, "My lord, what will be the outcome of these things?" 9) He said, "Go your way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end. 10) Many will purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked will do wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand; but those who are wise will understand. 11) "From the time that the continual burnt offering is taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there will be one thousand two hundred ninety days. 12) Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred thirty-five days. 13) "But go your way until the end; for you will rest, and will stand in your inheritance at the end of the days."

Daniel 12:1-13 (WEB)

However, as we read Daniel 12 we see that there are elements that also seem to point beyond Christ's First Advent to the final Great White Throne judgment, still in our history future.  Daniel 12:1 mentions a destiny determining "book" which parallels the Lamb's Book of Life in Revelation 20:15.  Daniel 12:2 is most easily understood to reference the resurrection of the deceased paralleled in Matthew 25:32, 1 Corinthians 15:12-58, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, and Revelation 20:11-15.  Daniel 12:4 mentions the "time of the end," but is this the end of the Old Covenant at Christ's First Advent or the end of this present world at Christ's Second Advent?  Daniel 12:8 with Daniel's lack of understanding also parallels Matthew 24:15 and the exhortation to understand.

The Amplified Bible also inserts commentary into Daniel 12:1 saying, "Now at that [end] time" raising another question.  Have we properly understood and translated the chronology of Daniel Chapter 12?  Does the initial Hebrew phrase in Daniel 12:1 connect back to the previous subject in Chapter 11 or forward to a new subject?  Perhaps the chronological connection between Daniel 11 and 12 is not immediate.

The Full Preterist interpreter tries to connect the fulfillment of all Biblical prophecy to the First Advent of Christ.  They see Matthew 25:31-46, Daniel 12:1-4, and Revelation 20:11-15 as events completely fulfilled during the change from the Old to the New Covenant with no unfulfilled prophecy of Christ's future return remaining.  They believe Christ's judgment on Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is the fulfillment of his prophesied coming.  The Dispensational Pre-Millennial interpreter instead tries to connect the fulfillment of most Biblical prophecy to the Second Advent of Christ.

Saxton, though proposing a first century fulfillment of many prophecies, makes this conclusion about Daniel 12:1, "The context of this deliverance suggests it may be twofold: After the Romans crushed the Jewish revolt, the Jewish leaders were no longer in a position to actively persecute those Jews who had trusted in Jesus as the Messiah.  Beyond this deliverance, however, is envisioned the greater ultimate deliverance to eternal life of both Jewish and Gentile Christians," Daniel's Prophecies of Covenant Change, page 67.

The majority of Bible interpreters would agree that there are prophetic Scriptures with twofold applications or where both current and future events are interleaved in the same message.  This seems to be the case in Daniel 12, Matthew 24-25, and other passages.  For another example, Jesus says in John 14:3 (WEB), "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will receive you to myself; that where I am, you may be there also."  So is Jesus speaking about his coming to us individually at our deaths, or corporately at his Second Advent?  Perhaps both are true.  Hopefully we do not get in an argument about this good news!  So our challenge remains maintaining positive fellowship even when we draw the lines in different places on matters that we do not fully understand.  Our questions to the Lord are limited to what we can envision, because we never come close to seeing God's whole picture.  However, when Jesus answers, his words help our immediate outlook, but also point us to the consummation of hope, well beyond our vision.  God sees the end from the beginning.

So after further reflection I still understand Matthew 25:31-46, Daniel 12:1-4, and Revelation 20:11-15 to point to the same event, the final judgment of God's creation.  However, even if you or I are wrong, we can rest assured because Jesus is in charge.

Your Theory about the Goats... Is it Really Possible? Matthew 25:31-46

READER>> I like what you have written, but question your theory about the goats on Jesus' left being fallen angels only.  Is it really possible?

ME>> Thank you for asking and join me in reconsidering.

Who are the goats?  It is a simple question with a simple answer assumed. Unbelievers of course! However, many times a simple observation is missed and we are misled by our assumptions. Consider, ever since 1492 whenever the word Indian is used we need to clarify whether we mean American Indian or Asian Indian. Columbus taught us long ago that accurate understanding requires an accurate knowledge of our frame of reference! Five hundred years later, even in our advanced era, NASA and Lockheed Martin lost a $125 million satellite to outer space because unknowingly one used Metric and the other English measurements. Oops! They remind us that compatible dialogue needs a compatible use of terms and measures. Michelangelo's famous Moses statue wears a set of horns because in Exodus 34 the Latin Vulgate translation wrongly says horns instead of glow, two very similar Hebrew words. So truthful conclusions can only come from accurate sources. Even the atheist Friedrich Nietzsche adds a point saying, "The text has disappeared under the interpretation." Thus Bible study is the hardest interpretive work there is, for one must mercilessly imprison a thousand traditions and silence a million voices to see the text of Scripture. May God give us the wisdom to consider every observation of others, but the clear sight to see his Word.

So who are the goats condemned by Jesus in Matthew 25:31-46? I propose that the goats on Jesus' left at the Sheep and Goat Judgment are the fallen angels. Matthew 25:41 (WEB) says, "Then he will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels." My defense of the victory of grace for all mankind at DGJC.ORG/OPTIMISM includes this understanding. The Scriptures explicitly say that the aionian fire is prepared for the Devil and his angels. Correspondingly, I understand that it is not prepared for mankind, not even unbelieving mankind. My conclusion has been challenged by Christians from various traditions, including Universalists.  Yet it should give us all pause to consider that the Scripture explicitly states that these fires are prepared for the Devil and his angels.  Do you and traditional theologies factor this observation into your conclusions?  Perhaps I am wrong. In fact I am already corrected on one point because I may have argued in the past that human beings were never referred to as goats in the Christian Scripture. However, Jeremiah 50:8 and 51:40, Ezekiel 39:18, and Zechariah 10:3 all use goats as a metaphor for Israel and Israel's leaders. So I must reconsider the identity of the goats, and also consider whether being wrong about the identity of the goats at the Sheep and Goat Judgment undermines my larger conclusion about the victory of God's grace for all mankind.

In the following article I invite you to weigh the evidence with me as I reconsider my conclusions about the Sheep and Goat Judgment. In the following paragraphs I list the major views of eschatology, disclose my own view of prophecy, list my previous articles on the subject, note the use and meaning of the Greek word ethnos, consider the impact of possible time frames, identify the Sheep on the right, prove the presence of fallen angels at the final future judgment, review the significance of Tartarus and Thalaasa, compare and contrast the Sheep and Goat Judgment with the Great White Throne Judgment, consider the redemption of fallen angels, examine Revelation 20:8 again, add further thoughts about redemptive ages beyond the Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation 21 and 22, note the promised end of death and Hades, reconsider the identity of the Goats on the left, and conclude whether Biblical proof about the victory of God's grace for all mankind is made uncertain because of uncertainty about Matthew 25:31-46 or any particular view of prophecy.

Various views of eschatology include: 1) Dispensational Pre-Millennialism, future, 2) non-Dispensational Pre-Millennialism, future, 3) A-Millennialism, present, 4) realized Post-Millennialism, past, 5) Post-Millennialism, future, 6) variations of the previous, and 7) full Preterism which understands that all prophecy is fully realized with no future return of Christ forecast. Preterist is the word used to describe prophetic statements that were future at the time the prophecy was written, but the events are now are past. Most Christians recognize that some New Testament prophecy is already fulfilled, but full Preterism asserts that all Biblical prophecy is completely fulfilled. I more fully explain each of these views and their relevancy to mankind's salvation in my articles Eschatology is the Study of Future Good News and Eschatology is the Study of Future Good News Part 2 with Grudem Riddlebarger Chilton Summers Ewing.

Further, within these views there are both common and uncommon understandings of the timing and purpose of the Sheep and Goat Judgment explained in Matthew 25:31-46. Various understandings include that the Sheep and Goat Judgment happened or happens 1) metaphorically on the cross dividing believer and unbeliever, 2) visibly when Christ judged Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and later Rome, 3) invisibly in the first century by Christ in Heaven, 4) visibly in the future at the rapture of the church before the Millennial epoch, and 5) visibly in the future at the rapture and Christ's second coming after the Millennial church age epoch, thus synonymous with the Great White Throne Judgment. So we have differences, yet I hope we can all agree gladly with the following statement;

Being right or wrong in our understanding about the Sheep and Goat Judgment and prophecy will not change the final destiny of the redeemed people of God in the least, though present understanding and joy may be impacted temporarily.

Many Christian teachers are private about their theological positions beyond the fact that Christ is the divine promised Messiah and that he is coming again for his own along with other essentials. There is wisdom in this discretion. Secondary theology and speculation often divides rather than unites. However, disclosure of my views online has been a helpful for me to think aloud to vet ideas and grow in understanding. Even so, if we meet in person I hope that our conversation remains focused on practical Christian living and loving instead of any puffed-up theories.

Yet prophecy has attracted my attention because the study of grace and mankind's salvation must be consistent with the things the Bible reveals about the future. Developing a consistent model of understanding is no small undertaking as two thousand years of theological conflict show. My own view of prophecy is simply a variation of the traditional A-Millennial view that the 1,000 year epoch revealed in Revelation 20:1-7 is the entire church age between Christ's first and Second Advent. Thus we wait for the final battle with Satan to be followed immediately by Christ's second coming and final judgment at the Great White Throne. At that time the redemption of mankind will be finally and fully manifest with every tear wiped away, sin and brokenness removed forever, and Satan's rebellion crushed as he and his demonic followers are sentenced to the Lake of Fire which is prepared for them. This is just as God promised to Adam and Eve so long ago in the garden, Genesis 3:15 (WEB), "I will put hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel."

My previous articles on prophecy include:

Now the passage under discussion, Matthew 25:31-46 (WEB), reads as follows,

31) But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32) Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33) He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34) Then the King will tell those on his right hand, "Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35) for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. 36) I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came to me." 37) Then the righteous will answer him, saying, "Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? 38) When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? 39) When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?" 40) The King will answer them, "Most certainly I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me." 41) Then he will say also to those on the left hand, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; 42) for I was hungry, and you didn't give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; 43) I was a stranger, and you didn't take me in; naked, and you didn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me." 44) Then they will also answer, saying, "Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn't help you?" 45) Then he will answer them, saying, "Most certainly I tell you, because you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn't do it to me." 46) These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

First we consider the use of the Greek word ethnos in verse 32, translated as nations above. Previously I have said that we most naturally assume that when Jesus gathers the nations before him that he is talking about only human beings and human nations. The Greek word ethnos could be understood to mean "a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus, for example the human family." Thus when Jesus divides the people into their categories of sheep and goats, we naturally conclude that believing humans are sheep while the remaining unbelieving humans are the goats. So it is commonly understood that only part of humanity is saved from the Lake of Fire while the rest are lost eternally. Arminians and Calvinists Christians both agree on this point, though curiously they disagree as to how people are saved. Further, most Christian Universalists also agree with this understanding, but conclude that all humanity is finally saved in redemptive ages beyond the Great White Throne Judgment and beyond the Lake of Fire. I understand the motivation for these views, but I still feel there is a more consistent model.

We should not conclude too quickly that ethnos means human ethnic groups. Etymology shows that the English word ethnic has a restricted meaning compared to its Greek origins. Perhaps the modern English meaning was wrongly influenced by the traditional understanding of this very passage. Instead note that the Greek word ethnos is also used to mean "the people, in contrast to their king." The first denotation in the Vines dictionary also indicates, "a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together: a company, troop, swarm." These alternate denotations must also be considered as eligible when interpreting this passage. The main point is that one cannot say that fallen angels are not at this judgment based on the meaning of the word ethnos, particularly since ethnos can mean "people in contrast to their king" and "a multitude of men or of beasts." Do not forget that angels are also God's subjects and are people with names, minds, wills, and emotion, though they are not human beings created in God's image. So the Greek ethnos would be the perfect word to describe a mixed gathering of humans and fallen angels arraigned before Jesus their king. That much all must agree. Also as an aside it is noted that the same Greek word ethnos is found in Revelation 20:8 in close proximity to the Great White Throne Judgment. Perhaps that is no coincidence.

Defense of the presence of fallen angels at The Sheep and Goat Judgment is important in my view because of my understanding that the Sheep and Goat Judgment and the Great White Throne Judgment are the same final judgment. If I understand that these judgments are the final judgment and the goats are unbelieving mankind, then they are sentenced to the Lake of Fire. However, we are considering and reconsidering the proposition that the goats are not human beings, but in fact are the fallen angels. Now those who think that the Sheep and Goat Judgment is before the Millennial epoch could alternatively still hold that all mankind avoids the Lake of Fire if unbelieving humans were sentenced to aionian fire in temporal Hades during the Millennial epoch and then finally saved when extracted from Hades at the Great White Throne Judgment. I initially held this view myself, combined with a non-Dispensational Pre-Millennial view of prophecy. Though, I have since moved to an A-Millennial understanding. In contrast to both of these ideas, the majority of Christian Universalists hold that unbelieving mankind is actually sentenced to the Lake of Fire at the Great White Throne Judgment, but then finally saved in yet later redemptive ages. However, I feel that this view misses the concluding nature of Revelation 21 and 22 and misses the simpler chronology taught in the Bible, Hebrews 9:27 (WEB), "Inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this, judgment." I wonder if those holding to redemptive ages beyond the Great White Throne Judgment would acknowledge that their strained interpretation may be motivated by the desire to save people from the Lake of Fire when it should be reconsidered whether human beings are ever sent there in the first place.

Further debate could be encouraged to consider the plausibility of the various proposed time frames of the Sheep and Goat Judgment. For example to suggest that this judgment is the invisible judgment at the cross neglects the real dialogue portrayed between Christ and his subjects. To suggest that this judgment happened in Heaven invisibly to us might be possible, but then where does it fit on the redemptive timeline shown in the book of Revelation and elsewhere? And the grand picture of Christ gathering all his subjects before him is lost because we were not there along with many others not yet born. Finally, to suggest that this is an intermediate judgment in the future at the rapture before the Millennial Kingdom might also be possible, but requires an acceptance of the Dispensational model.  Hebrews 9:27, quoted above, again points to a simpler understanding that we each die once and there will be one final judgment at the end of the church age before eternity begins. In any case, views that propose that the Sheep and Goat Judgment is not the final judgment minimize the importance of the identity of the goats to maintain a consistent Christian Universalist theology because Christ would still have opportunity to save the goats later, if they are human.  After all, Christ did say that the gates of Hades will not prevail, and, as promised, we see that Hades is emptied at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Again, it is commonly assumed that the goats on the left are unbelievers to be damned for all eternity and the sheep on the right are the believers to be blessed for all eternity. However, before we consider the goats on the left, let's consider the sheep on the right. The sheep may offer further clues about the time frame of this judgment. Many times we miss the obvious by not asking the obvious question. Why do the sheep on the right seem ignorant of gospel basics such as, we serve Christ when we serve the least of his brothers? Why do they seem surprised about their salvation? For those that understand the Sheep and Goat Judgment to be synonymous with the Great White Throne Judgment, then the timing of this final judgment would be just after the rapture of the saints to meet the returning Christ in the air. Christ and his church then descend to earth and this judgment begins. That being the case it is strange to think of the believers rejoicing in the air with Christ and with each other moments before fearful judgment. Review 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 (WEB).

14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15) For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep. 16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with God's trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first, 17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever. 18) Therefore comfort one another with these words.

It is very awkward to suggest that we believers who understand the gospel and will already be rejoicing with Christ in the air at the rapture will then be arraigned with uncertainties before the Sheep and Goat Judgment. You may have guessed by now that I do not think that the sheep on the right are believers. So then who are the sheep on Jesus' right? They are unbelieving mankind just extracted from Hades! This model of understanding is a perfect match with the attitude and questions that would be expected from the unbelieving redeemed that are extracted from Hades at the final judgment.  I call them unbelieving redeemed because Christ redeemed them at the cross and their sins are already atoned, though they remain unbelieving.  Faith does not cause our redemption and atonement, but instead faith receives our redemption already made certain at the cross.  Unbelievers are punished in Hades not because they are not forgiven, but because they refuse the forgiveness already given at the cross and so reject Christ their savior and King.  God loves and has already forgiven all mankind, but the hearts of unbelievers are not ready to confess their sin and receive forgiveness. They do not yet see the great gift in the gospel and the value of Christian service. Instead unbelievers will spend who knows how long in whatever sufferings Hades brings to the wicked dead. And one day they will be released from their prison in Hades to stand before Christ their King. The responses of the sheep on the right fit this scenario perfectly.  They are lost sheep, then found.  Meanwhile believers, whether standing on the side line or in the midst, are not asking such questions, but have already begun rejoicing that the final victory of grace is at hand.

One objected to this view asking why the Lord commends those extracted from Hades for good things they did. Did they really do good things?  Did the selfish rich man do any good?  Did Hitler do any good? These are good questions with Jesus answering, "whatever you did for the least of these, you did for me." We as believers already know that, but the unbelievers do not know that, and still will not understand until released from punishment in Hades to be judged by Christ. However, even though they do not understand these things now, there still may be many 'decent' secular humanitarians... from an earthly perspective. True, if they do not repent, they will still be sentenced to Hades for disregarding Christ. Yet even so they may have done some good for humanity. Unbelievers can do good things. Perhaps even Hitler did an act of kindness before he became enslaved to Satan's scheme. All mankind, even the unbelieving, are created in God's image, and may at times do good things to help others. Certainly no one does enough good to merit salvation. However, at the Sheep and Goat Judgment Jesus graciously accepts any good done by the unbelieving at this juncture, not because it saves them, but so that eternity begins on a positive note rather than a negative note for these prisoners just released. Another argued that this is not possible because all our righteous deeds are like "filthy rags." Well, that is true of both believer and non-believer alike. So Christ's kind words are undeserved no matter who is the audience! Good parents know to focus on the positive after punishing their children. Even human authorities speak a hopeful future to released prisoners. Would God then begin eternity with a begrudged welcome for those saved out of Hades? No way! God, as the originator of grace, understands better than we about the importance of starting things on a positive note!

Continuing, some have argued that fallen angels will not be present at the final judgment. However, this fact is easily proved. We read in 2 Peter 2:4 (WEB), "For if God didn't spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness to be reserved for judgment." Further, we read Jude 6 (WEB), "Angels who didn't keep their first domain, but deserted their own dwelling place, he has kept in everlasting bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day." So fallen angels will be present for judgment on that Great Day! This fact must be integrated into our understanding of the final judgment passages.  The fallen angels will be there.

The Great White Throne Judgment recorded in Revelation 20:11-15 (WEB) offers both similar and additional detail of the final judgment when compared with Matthew 25:31-46. We read,

11) I saw a great white throne, and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. There was found no place for them. 12) I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13) The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. 14) Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Comparing the judgment in Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15 is helpful to confirm whether these are the same events. However, first note that Revelation 20:13 explains that the subjects of this judgment are extracted from both the sea, Thalaasa in the Greek, and also from Hades. This is at least a curious observation and perhaps a significant observation as it relates to the presence of fallen angels at the final judgment. I have already proved the presence of fallen angels at the final judgment from 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6. The Great White Throne Judgment is the last judgment recorded in Scripture and therefore, I believe, the final judgment. Further, we see that the subjects of this judgment are extracted from two locations, Hades and Thalaasa. We know from Luke 16:19-31 that wicked deceased humans are punished in Hades. However, who is located in Thalaasa, the sea? I propose that Thalaasa is either the retreat or the temporary prison of fallen angels.  The sea was commonly understood to be the caustic habitat of demons in the first century. I examine this question at length in my article, Fallen Angels at the Great White Throne Judgment. This article explains possible connections between Thalaasa and the prison for fallen angels, Tartarus, mentioned in 2 Peter 2:4. Thus the presence of fallen angels at the final judgment, just extracted from the sea, is even further confirmed and must be factored into our view of the final judgment.

I have proposed that the Sheep and Goat Judgment is the same event as the Great White Throne Judgment. If I am wrong about this conclusion then between the two events, the Great White Throne Judgment is the better choice for the final judgment because of its placement at the end of the book of Revelation. That being the case fallen angels would still be present then, even if they are not at the Sheep and Goat Judgment. This is safely concluded because of the reference to "the Great Day" in Jude 6 and the emptying of both the prison of Hades and of Thalaasa in Revelation 20:13.  And as already stated, if the Sheep and Goat Judgment is earlier, not the final judgment, and angels are not present there, then Christ would still have opportunity to save the goats later, if they are human, and if Hades is the aionian fires of the Sheep and Goat judgment.  This is true because we see that Hades is emptied at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Consider a detailed comparison of Matthew 25 and Revelation 20.

Comparison Sheep and Goat Great White Throne
Both accounts are from gospel writers. Matthew wrote Matthew John wrote Revelation
All four gospel writers include Jesus' final prophecies, Matthew, Mark, and Luke within their gospel accounts and John not in his gospel account, but with special attention in Revelation. Olivet discourse in Matthew 24-25 Missing in John's gospel, but instead explained in his book of Revelation
Both answer questions about the present and future. 24:3) As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? What is the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age" 1:9) I John, your brother and partner with you in the oppression, Kingdom, and perseverance in Christ Jesus, was on the isle that is called Patmos because of God's Word and the testimony of Jesus Christ. ... 1:19) Write therefore the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will happen hereafter.
Both depict grand thrones. 25:31) But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 20:11) I saw a great white throne, and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. There was found no place for them.
Both depict Christ summoning his subjects with John providing more detail from where, though without contradiction. 25:32) Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 20:13) The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works.
Matthew notes the separation of sheep and goats. Revelation notes judgment, though there is no contradiction. Many assume no one is saved at the Great White Throne, but only forwarded to the Lake of Fire. Yet, if these events are the same, then at least some of the people extracted from Hades or Thalaasa are saved at the Sheep and Goat Judgment! 25:32) Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 20:12) I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Matthew records dialogue between Christ and his subjects while Revelation does not, though again there is no contradictory detail. 25:39) "When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?" 40) The King will answer them, "Most certainly I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me."  
Matthew records praise for the good deeds of the sheep while Revelation records judgment based on both works and also whether one's name is in the Lamb's Book. Again there is no contradictory detail. 25:34) Then the King will tell those on his right hand, 'Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35) for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in.' 20:12) I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. ... 20:15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Matthew records both the positive destiny of the sheep and the negative destiny of the goats while Revelation records only the negative destiny of those not listed in the Lamb's Book with the positive destiny of those listed only implied. Again there is no contradictory detail. 25:46) These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. 20:15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Matthew and John use different terms for the destiny of the wicked, though again without contradiction. aionian fire Lake of Fire

 
The Sheep and Goat Judgment and the Great White Throne Judgment have much in common and so it is both fair and commonly agreed by many to consider these events as synonymous.  Repeating one conclusion from the above chart, if the Sheep and Goat Judgment and the Great White Throne Judgment events are the same final judgment event, then at least some of the people extracted from Hades or Thalaasa are saved at the Great White Throne Judgment!  Since the Great White Throne Judgment only speaks explicitly about those not listed in the Book as being cast in the Lake of Fire, many argue that all the inhabitants of Hades and Thalaasa are simply extracted so they can be sentenced to their permanent destiny in the Lake of Fire. Unfortunately this is a hasty conclusion.  So, if not clear in Revelation's Great White Throne Judgment, it is clear in Matthew's Sheep and Goat Judgment that some are saved at this juncture.  It is also clear that the subjects at the Great White Throne Judgment are from Hades and Thalaasa.  Therefore if the Sheep and Goat Judgment is synonymous with the Great White Throne Judgment, it is proved that at least some are saved from either Hades or Thalaasa.  So if you agree that the Sheep and Goat Judgment and the Great White Throne Judgment are the same event, then you must also agree with me that some from either Hades or Thalaasa are saved.  I would propose that Hades houses unbelieving mankind and they will all be saved because all of their names are written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, though they do not yet understand and believe this as Christians do.  And I would l propose that Thalaasa houses the fallen angels and they are not saved because Scriptures says that the Lake of Fire is explicitly prepared for them!

A more thorough study could compare the Sheep and Goat Judgment with other Bible passages that may also refer to the final judgment.  For example, Daniel 12:1-4 is a possible candidate which I discuss further in my articles Daniel 12:1-4 and Your Thought is that Daniel 12:1-4 is the Final Judgment!  My conclusion is that Daniel 12:1-4 corroborates with my thesis here.  Another passage to review is John 5:28-30 which I have considered in my article, John 5:28-30 Offers No Optimism.  Likewise 2 Peter chapter 2, one of the scarier chapters in the New Testament, has grave warnings for false teachers.   However, this chapter also explicitly reminds us that fallen angels will be present at the judgment.  The passage also reminds us that the unbelieving will be punished and then brought to judgment.  However, there is no explicit mention of eternal punishment beyond the final judgment for mankind.  Note that 2 Peter 2:17 (WEB) is translated, "These are wells without water, clouds driven by a storm; for whom the blackness of darkness has been reserved forever."  However, the Greek word underlying "forever" is "aion" which never means infinite chronological time as has been explained numerous times at DGJC.ORG and in Optimism Out of Control.  Instead the meaning is either eonian or entire.  Also see the article, Aion, for further proof.  So 2 Peter chapter 2 corroborates as well.

As mentioned, particular to my model of understanding is the proposition that fallen angels are the goats on Jesus left that are extracted from Thalaasa for their final judgment. These fallen angels are then sentenced to the Lake of Fire which is prepared for them while all mankind is redeemed because Christ has already atoned for the sins of all mankind at the cross, 1 John 2:2 (WEB), "And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world." Naturally, however, we do not expect everyone to see things the same way. And differences may even be more pronounced among the radical minority that holds to the universal salvation of mankind. One point of debate among Christian Universalists is whether Satan himself and the fallen angels will be redeemed. I mention this because my model of understanding is different than most Universalists. I agree that the grace of Christ will be victorious in the salvation of all mankind. However, I also understand that no human being will ever enter the Lake of Fire because it is not prepared for mankind, but instead for the Devil and his angels, as explicitly stated. So my understanding may revive debate about the possibility of fallen angel redemption.

Most arguments promoting the salvation of Satan focus on passages like Romans 11:32, Colossians 1:20, and Philippians 2:10 which speak about the salvation and redemption of all and worship of every tongue. Weighty arguments can be made from these passages for the redemption of all creation, including Satan. The Holy Spirit's choice of words for the redemption of all creation should especially be noted in Romans 8:21 and 11:32.  However, these passages must also be weighed against Scriptures that say God is not the helper of angels, Hebrews 2:16, and Matthew 25:41 which explicitly states the Lake of Fire is prepared for the Devil and his angels. I discuss this question further in my articles Isaiah 65:25 Says that Even Satan Will Be Restored, Hebrews 2:16 Does Not Say Fallen Angels Are Damned, and Isaiah 66:22-24 Cannot Include Fallen Angels. One might also ask if the goat metaphor is ever used of fallen angels in the Bible beyond my proposal concerning Matthew 25:31-46. It is not to my knowledge. Further, the extra Biblical image of the goat-headed Baphomet offers no proof either.  Those offended by the damnation of Satan and his angels to the Lake of Fire should be reminded that the bottom line argument for the redemption of all mankind should not hinge on the meaning of all and every.  We all understand that these words can be used in general non-absolute ways at times.  Instead the bottom line argument for the redemption of all mankind is the atoning sacrifice of the God-man, Jesus Christ.  Christ's role as the second Adam and new federal head of humanity is the heart of our hope and praise.  Though I do not want to speculate beyond Scripture as to Satan's eternal destiny, but simply observe that Jesus is not his helper, the Lake of Fire is prepared for him and his fallen angels, and there they remain at the last sentence of the Bible.

Suppose I am right and the judgments in Matthew 25 and Revelation 20 are the same event and fallen angels are the goats on Jesus' left, then does the warning in Revelation 21:8 really only apply to fallen angels? Actually, I would say no. This warning applies to both mankind and angel-kind alike.  Revelation 21:8 says, "But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." The Holy Spirit is consistent through the whole of Scripture giving severe warning to unbelieving mankind. This is evident in God's condemnation of Nineveh, though God did not destroy Nineveh as he promised, as explained in my article, Jonah 3. This is also evident when God's calls Israel, "not my people", then again, "my people" when they repented, as explained in my article, Hosea 2:23. So the warning in Revelation 21:8 applies to all, but I believe that condemnation to the Lake of Fire will only be applied to the fallen angels and not mankind, not even unbelieving mankind, who will be finally graced with repentance and open eyes on that Great Day.  This is true because God himself already determined the glorious destiny of all mankind when he made atonement for the sins of all mankind.  I discuss this in more detail in my article, How Can You Say Revelation 21:8 Does Not Apply to Humans?

So if we believe the Sheep and Goat Judgment and the Great White Throne Judgment are the same event, the final judgment of men and angels, which I do, and also believe that all mankind will be finally saved, which I do, then we must either defend that the goats on Jesus' left are not human beings, but are in fact the fallen angels, or that the human beings sent to the Lake of Fire will be safely extracted later. We have reviewed the Biblical data above preparing to re-defend the proposal that the fallen angels are the goats on Jesus' left. Now if it were true that human begins were never referred to as goats, then that would provide even one more argument to support my case. However, Jeremiah 50:8 and 51:40, and Ezekiel 39:18 all use goats as a metaphor for Israel and Israel's leaders. So the argument that goat imagery never refers to human beings cannot be used. Yet note that these passages do not distinguish between sheep as good and goats as bad as we find in Matthew 25 and so should not be considered parallel passages.  However, Zechariah 10:2-3, a closer parallel to Matthew 25, does condemn Israel's leaders, the goats, for misleading Israel's people, the sheep.  So if Matthew 25 is parallel to Zechariah 10, then it draws a line of judgement between condemned leaders and misled followers.  But certainly Matthew's Sheep and Goat judgment cuts deeper than a line between leaders and followers, but instead is a division determined before the foundation of creation in the Book of Life, Revelation 20:15. So Matthew 25 appears to be the only place were sheep and goat imagery is used to contrast between those saved from the Lake of Fire and those who are not saved. The final question of this study remains. Is there enough Biblical data to warrant the proposition that the goats on the left are the fallen angels only?

As explained, for most Christian Universalists this is not even an important question because instead most propose that unbelieving mankind, or even all mankind, are scourged of sin in the Lake of Fire and finally saved in redemptive ages beyond the Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation 21 and 22. Revelation 21 and 22 could possibly be understood to portray redemptive ages after the Great White Throne Judgment. For Revelation 20:4 (WEB) says, "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away." All sin and brokenness appears to be healed. But then beyond that Revelation 22:14-15 (WEB) says, "Blessed are those who do his commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." So has sin reentered the world after the Great White Throne Judgment? No. The mistake in this interpretation is to assume that the verses after the Great White Throne Judgment are a sequential chronology of redemptive ages. Instead a better literary analysis would show that the Great White Throne Judgment is the end of the story for this fallen world followed by the commencement of blessed eternity for God's people. Revelation 21 and 22 are then the concluding statements that paint a summary picture of this promised future for mankind, as well as a picture of the New Testament church age until we reach the Great White Throne Judgment.  A good conclusion will address both the present need and the future hope just as the Holy Spirit does in Revelation 21 and 22. Read more about my understanding of this question at Revelation 21:22 The Last Age, the Church, or Eternity?

Christian Universalists that propose escape from the Lake of Fire also use the argument that the end of death is promised in the New Testament and so that must mean escape from the second death in the Lake of Fire. This is a hopeful thought, but only born out of the concern that human beings are sent to the Lake of Fire in the first place. However, the thought is not as precise as needed in attention to detail. Jesus does promise that "the gates of Hades will not prevail against it" in Matthew 16:18 (WEB) as explained in my article, Matthew 16:15-21 Optimism Out of Control. Paul also reinforces the hope in 1 Corinthians 15:55 (WEB) saying, "Death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?" Yet both of these passages point to the good news at the Great White Throne Judgment when Hades is emptied and death is ended for mankind with the beginning of blessed eternity. However, there is no promise in Scripture concerning the end of the second death for the Devil and his angels.  In fact the Holy Spirit uses the expression "second death" in order to make a distinction between those saved from the first death in Hades, that is unbelieving mankind, and those not saved from the second death in the Lake of Fire, that is the Devil and his angels.  These are important observations again supporting the conclusions that unbelieving humans are saved out of Hades, the first death, and that fallen angels are sent to the Lake of Fire which is prepared for them, the second death.

So is there enough Biblical data to warrant the proposition that the goats on the left are only the fallen angels? After further review I continue to believe so. Even though human beings are referred to as goats a few times in Scripture I still think there is enough evidence to hold that fallen angels are condemned and all mankind finally saved.  The fallen angels are condemned to the Lake of Fire at the final judgment while all Christians rejoice with Christ at the rapture and all non-Christians are safely extracted from Hades and surprised to learn that they are finally saved along with all God's people.  The sins of unbelievers are already atoned, the same as the sins of believers, at the cross of Christ!  There are many Scriptures and arguments above that point to this conclusion. I did not even mention the supra-Biblical observation that redemptive history begins with the promise of a deliverer for mankind and the forecast that Satan's head will be crushed in Genesis 3:15. Revelation 20 then finishes the story with the salvation of all mankind and the banishment of Satan and his angels to the Lake of Fire.  This is an important point, so let me say it again.  History begins with the fall of mankind to the schemes of Satan and with God promising future deliverance for his people and the crushing of Satan's rebellion.  And the history of this fallen world will end with the sentencing of Satan to the Lake of Fire and the redemption of all God's people to blessed eternity. These are the two perfectly matching bookends for the history of redemption!  The Bible is the story of the most awesome victory of grace for mankind and the final defeat of Satan our adversary!

Even so, for me, the essential facts remain 1) fallen angels will be at the final judgment, 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6, 2) the Lake of Fire is explicitly prepared for the Devil and his angels, Matthew 25:41, 3) Christ is not the helper of fallen angels, Hebrews 2:16, 4) Christ promised to defeat Hades, Matthew 16:18 and 1 Corinthians 15:55, 5) Hades is emptied and proven to be temporal punishment for unbelieving mankind, Revelation 20:13, and 6) Christ as the second Adam is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of all mankind, both believing and unbelieving, Romans 5:18 and 1 John 2:1.  These indisputable observations must be integrated into any Biblical view of destiny for mankind and angelkind.

The arguments I propose identifying the goats as the fallen angels seem certain to me. What do you think? However, even so we might ask if Biblical proof of the victory of God's grace for all mankind is made uncertain because of remaining uncertainty about Matthew 25:31-46 or any particular prophecy? Certainly Biblical teaching about future things and final judgments must be compatible with any interpretation about the final destiny of mankind. However, within Christian theology, which is already divided on so many points, the subject of eschatology may be the most divided and confused of all. Biblical passages about judgments and future things can be very difficult to understand and to consistently synthesize with the whole of Scripture. So building a case for the final redemption of all mankind based on a particular view of eschatology may not be the best foundation. (Though curiously, those who oppose the idea of mankind's universal salvation are equally divided over interpretation of prophecy and even their salvation recipes, yet their common foundation is the claim that all mankind will not be saved!  What a terrible foundation!). Instead the foundational argument for the salvation of all mankind is Christ himself as the second Adam and the atoning sacrifice for not only our sins, but the sins of all mankind. Confidence in this fact overrules any uncertainties we may have in interpreting Christ's prophecies. Christ's work on the cross for all mankind is the foundation of hope both for us and for our fellowman.

Finally, while I enjoy these studies, confirming and re-confirming the fact of God's love for all mankind from the Bible, I also consider a graver question.  Will further proofs of Jesus' promises and prophecy help our understanding and prove God's victorious grace to the unbeliever?  Will those already professing Christ be thankful that the grace that saves all mankind is the same grace that also saves them?  Will those who reject the salvation of all mankind recognize their offensive blind hypocrisy in claiming their sins are forgiven at the cross, but the sins of others are not forgiven?  It would be the greatest honor to be used by God to lead another to Christ and his grace for us all.  And God commands us to labor with all our energy testifying to his grace.  He adds our feeble efforts into his master plan.  However, the praise for opening the ears of the dumb, giving sight to the blind, and raising the dead goes to Christ alone.  He alone has the power to conceive born again believers.  Fine arguments alone never persuaded one person to come to Christ.  The Holy Spirit alone breathes life into the dead.

So if further expert defense is rejected after all our efforts, remember Paul's exhortation in 2 Corinthians 10:3-5 (WEB), "For though we walk in the flesh, we don't wage war according to the flesh; for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but mighty before God to the throwing down of strongholds, throwing down imaginations and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ."  We wage war preaching God's word and praying to Christ while waiting patiently for the Holy Spirit to make the difference!

Thank you for joining my further research. Understanding prophecy has always been difficult for me. Lack of confidence in my position has, at times past, resulted in embarrassment and defensiveness. Helpful teachability was lost in me because confident understanding eluded me even after all my study. Further, I was lost in the dizzying array of interpretive models available. I despaired whether understanding was even possible. The winning recipe for my dilemma was instead to rest confidently in the Lord's love knowing that our promised destiny does not depend upon our understanding, but upon his grace. That is good news! Hopefully this good news lowers our defenses enough to honest that our best explanations are merely models of understanding. History future will give us the certain understanding when that Great Day reveals all. My proposed model of understanding has answered enough questions to satisfy my desire to make consistent sense of the whole. However, I pray that I, or any who agree with my conclusions above, would keep knowledge in its proper place for questions still remain.  One day even the value of knowledge will be eclipsed and pass away with the commencement of glorious eternity. Though knowledge about God's love for you, me, and all mankind will certainly never pass away!

Your Thought is that Christians Have Lost the Gospel?

QUESTION>>  Your thought is that Christians have lost the gospel?  Really?

ME>> Certainly not all Christians have lost the gospel! However, just as certainly there are many who claim to follow Jesus and profess faith in Jesus, yet are misguided as to who Jesus is and the beauty of his unconditional love. Consider that the first century church of Galatia lost the gospel. Apostle Paul wrote the letter of Galatians to rebuke their unbelief. This church was nurtured by Paul himself. This church was only decades away from Christ himself. Yet even they were not immune from falling from grace. They were not immune and neither are we, as church history shows. Sadly our natural way of thinking prefers conditional love instead of unconditional love. Our sinful self prefers hypocrisy instead of happiness that Jesus loves all mankind.  So are you thinking naturally or supernaturally? Are you hypocritical or happy?  Read Galatians 3:1-5 (WEB).

1) Foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you not to obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly portrayed among you as crucified? 2) I just want to learn this from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith? 3) Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now completed in the flesh? 4) Did you suffer so many things in vain, if it is indeed in vain? 5) He therefore who supplies the Spirit to you, and does miracles among you, does he do it by the works of the law, or by hearing of faith?

 

Friend, trust the good news, take the yoke that is easy.
Learn from my mistakes, avoid the dead end that is hard.
Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, he loves mankind deeply!
Why believe Satan's lies, why run from grace scared?

God's richest blessing to you!

Jeff Martin